Whats next for ASA????

[captjorge74]

So now that our imcompetent management failed to reach an agreement with our CNC, what is next for ASA? I keep hearing that a possible strike vote is coming, but I have been waiting 2 years for that. Has anyone heard anything so far????

 

[~~~^~~~]

A strike vote authorization has been requested. The strike vote has to be authorized by ALPA National. A P2P call is going on tonight, so there might be news then. If history serves as a yard stick, we are still at least 9 months from walking out. There will be a lot of negotiating in the interim.

There is also the highly unlikely scenario that we get folded into Skywest, which would tilt the contract negotiations since something would have to be worked out that covered all pilots after a bargaining agent was selected.

I am surprised at what management offered. The pay rates are a sore spot, but not outside the very low edge of economic reality. However, the scope section renders our contract worthless because management can side step us and force us to "compete" any time they want. We have no choice but to vote no because of the scope language.

Jerry Atkin is known as an honorable manager. I don't know if he has reviewed this scope section, or if our management here at ASA is saying, "the buck stops here." However, if we do not have scope that binds our parent company, we have nothing.

 

[737 Pylt]

I am surprised at what management offered. The pay rates are a sore spot, but not outside the very low edge of economic reality. However, the scope section renders our contract worthless because management can side step us and force us to "compete" any time they want. We have no choice but to vote no because of the scope language.

Sounds like you should stop worrying about the DL scope language and worry about your own. Maybe you could start an extortion suit against Skywest management if you don't get your way!

737

 

[enuffalready]

Name Change

It seems everytime the symbol formally knows as fins posts anything, 737pie-hole seems to reply some crap about scope, rjdc, whatever ... I propose a name change to finsscopestalker

 

[~~~^~~~]

737Pylt - you must have retrieved your towl. Hard to quit, crackinfo isn't it?

Again - Skywest management only owes their duty to the shareholders. ALPA owes a duty to us, the pilots who pay for ALPA.

We only worried about DL scope language after it destroyed our scope language. ALPA filed two lawsuits seeking to park ASA and Comair airplanes long before the RJDC was ever thought about.

On a local level, ALPA does an excellent job for the ASA pilots. ALPA only fails us when ALPA is under orders from the DL MEC to take action contrary to ALPA's duty to the ASA pilots. We have seen the system work and fail often enough to anticipate its operation.

Now come on, lets quit going in circles. Let us not discourage others from using this forum because we have an intractible arguement that is going to get solved at the courthouse. If we could solve it on this board, it would have been fixed back in 1999. If and when we brave Patriots take ALPA back from the hijackers and restore this profession, I'll buy you a beer, Mint Julip, or whatever you frat boys are drinking these days.

 

[737 Pylt]

737Pylt - you must have retrieved your towl. Hard to quit, crackinfo isn't it?

Much as you like to lie and twist the truth like your organization, here's my quote:

Well, I'm taking the advice of coopervane, I can no longer take any of D'Angelo's posts.
I'll give the guys like Joe Merchant, ~~~^~~~, credit for their debating, much as I don't like them, they always give a good debate.

D'angelo is on my ignore list. I actually gave you and your fiance joe merchant (aka JB) props!

Again - Skywest management only owes their duty to the shareholders. ALPA owes a duty to us, the pilots who pay for ALPA.

I agree with you there, just not with your extortion!

We only worried about DL scope language after it destroyed our scope language. ALPA filed two lawsuits seeking to park ASA and Comair airplanes long before the RJDC was ever thought about.

Come on dude, where do you come up with this stuff?? Is this from the same book where the DL mec is trying to take away your pass privileges. You have been caught in so many lies!

On a local level, ALPA does an excellent job for the ASA pilots. ALPA only fails us when ALPA is under orders from the DL MEC to take action contrary to ALPA's duty to the ASA pilots. We have seen the system work and fail often enough to anticipate its operation.

Then quit trying to extort it!

Now come on, lets quit going in circles. Let us not discourage others from using this forum because we have an intractible arguement that is going to get solved at the courthouse. If we could solve it on this board, it would have been fixed back in 1999. If and when we brave Patriots take ALPA back from the hijackers and restore this profession, I'll buy you a beer, Mint Julip, or whatever you frat boys are drinking these days.

At least we can agree to disagree.
I'll highlight again what I stated. I give you guys props for your debates. Much as they are filled with lies and half truths, its not just whining, its lying sometimes, but not just whining. I have put D'angelo on my ignore list, not you your your pal JB!
Until the next round of lies from you guys

737

 

[~~~^~~~]

Come on dude, where do you come up with this stuff?? Is this from the same book where the DL mec is trying to take away your pass privileges. You have been caught in so many lies!
737

Fall 2005 "Roar" published using ALPA funds:

"I wonder if our former "wholly owned subsidiary" is going to retain date-of-hire passes and continue to bump hard-working Delta folks off their own airplanes?"

The date publication of the comments from LEC 44 Leadership pre dated DL's action announcing the loss of pass benefits by 5 business days. You claim there is no link, but obviously members of the Delta MEC were talking to Delta management about the subject and went as far as to brag about it in writing. As to the litigation funded by ALPA trying to park ASA and Comair jets, here is press coverage of those events:

http://www.cincypost.com/business/1999/delta042799.html
The union representing Delta Air Lines' 9,000 pilots is suing the airline in a New York federal court over plans to use regional jets flown by Comair on a Washington, D.C.-to-Boston shuttle service.

And the other

Atlanta based, Atlantic Southeast Airline's (ASA) announcement that it will leases 5 BAe 146-200 jets, with an option to lease 15 more, is an area of increasing friction. The BAe 146 aircraft has a maximum seating capacity of 108 seat, although ASA. plans to operate it with only 88 seats. Traditionally, Delta Connection Operators have flown smaller commuter aircraft of 70 seats or less. Pilots fear that Delta; which owns 22 percent of ASA., will transfer over less profitable routes; meaning fewer flights for Delta pilots. Captain Cameron Foster, charges...

"The pilot's contract clearly forbids feeder carrier flights of more than 70 seats. Those bigger airplanes should be considered direct competition and a threat to our market! Furthermore, this action is in direct violation of our Scope Clause and we are going to proceed with legal means to stop it!" (DALPA. Hotline)

As promised, on August 2, 1995, The Air Lines Pilots Association, which represents the 8,600 Delta Pilots, filed for an injunction against Delta Air Lines Inc. in Los Angles, California's Federal District Court. The lawsuit, is an attempt to prevent Delta from transferring operations of large jet aircraft to Delta Connection Carriers, that use the Delta name and marketing presence, but not its pilots. Delta officials insist that they have no control over ASA. In addition, they contend that ASA decision to lease jet aircraft has absolutely no bearing on contract negotiations with Delta Pilots. Management also made it very clear that the pilots were aware of the fact that transferring operations to "Delta Connection Carriers" was always a possibility under Leadership 7.5. Apparently, Delta's pilot's disagree. Captain W.R. Brown. Chairman of the ALPA Unit, at Delta stated.

Everyone on this board can Google these to find out more and decide for themselves who is telling the truth. By the way, ALPA lost both of those actions. ASA did operate athe BAE with up to 105 seats and Comair operated the Shuttle until it was voluntarily pulled down by DL management to appease ALPA.

It goes to show ALPA's acts were not accidental. After losing in the 1990's ALPA tooks scope away from the small jet carriers and darned well knew what the result would be. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link and now that your scope blockade has been busted the race to the bottom is in full swing.

A gentleman would apologize for falsely accusing another of lying. What say you?

 

[737 Pylt]

Fall 2005 "Roar" published using ALPA funds:

Sigh...This is getting old. We've been down this road too many times. Did the MEC try to revoke your privileges, or just DOH off DL airplanes? Sorry, but you're no longer wholly owned, and you no longer deserve DOH on DL airplanes, just like DL doesn't deserve DOH on ASA planes. I'll time your answer with a calender!
We also know your girlpals over at the rjdc are using the ALPA forum for rjdc publications such as your ever popular "industry updates & points and counter points." This argument from you is getting old! Much as you try to spin it, you just can't because you are incapable of telling the truth!

The date publication of the comments from LEC 44 Leadership pre dated DL's action announcing the loss of pass benefits by 5 business days. You claim there is no link, but obviously members of the Delta MEC were talking to Delta management about the subject and went as far as to brag about it in writing. As to the litigation funded by ALPA trying to park ASA and Comair jets, here is press coverage of those events:
And the other Everyone on this board can Google these to find out more and decide for themselves who is telling the truth.

Parking jets...Come on man, get creative! Are they trying to park jets or just have them removed from SHUTTLE SERVICE? Your spin and lies are becoming really dull. Get a hobby, donate more money to Haber, but for the love of all things, TRY TO TELL THE TRUTH FOR ONCE IN YOUR PATHETIC LIFETIME!

737

 

[~~~^~~~]

Did the MEC try to revoke your privileges, or just DOH off DL airplanes? Sorry, but you're no longer wholly owned, and you no longer deserve DOH on DL airplanes, just like DL doesn't deserve DOH on ASA planes.
737

It was DL's position that they own all the flying, including our code share (and I grant that they do pay for the flight). If I fail to make the distinction between the loss of our pass benefits and pass benefits with a priority behind your ex-wife's, children's buddies, on spring break, forgive me.

 

[737 Pylt]

It was DL's position that they own all the flying, including our code share (and I grant that they do pay for the flight). If I fail to make the distinction between the loss of our pass benefits and pass benefits with a priority behind your ex-wife's, children's buddies, on spring break, forgive me.

You're forgiven....You just don't seem to realize, so I'll say it loudly......YOU ARE NO LONGER WHOLLY OWNED....WHY IS THAT SO HARD FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND???
737