Whats next for ASA????

[JoeMerchant]

I swear, the audacity of management boils my blood. I can only pray for the survival of the company that they are not seriously considering paying 70 drivers less than 50 drivers. They sure are doing one hell of a job stalling with a contract and raking in the $$$$$$$$ for the present time. Sons-a-bitzzzzs. On top of that, the LOA with SKYW and our scope need to be realized , and trip/duty rigs as well. Otherwise they can shove their contract in the unholiest of places. This sure is getting fugly.:angryfire

1x1, it was actually ALPA that started out stalling negotiations 4 years ago. ALPA wanted to drag out negotiations until such time as the industry improved.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Don't worry crjskipper, ALPA will take care of everything. Just keep sending that $ to Herndon - Duane needs new shoes.

So what is the answer John??

Step by step. From here to the end game, what is your solution. I really want to hear it.

 

[JoeMerchant]

So what is the answer John??

Step by step. From here to the end game, what is your solution. I really want to hear it.

That depends on what your "end game" is. These negotiations are not what I consider the "end game" anymore. We need to lay a foundation to regain some leverage and it won't be easy nor quick.

1. First we need to stop the bleeding. Do whatever it takes to keep as much flying as we can. You can call it "pay to play" or "whorring yourself out", but I call it living to fight another day. Whether you like it or not, ALPA has helped management create this competitive environment and we must deal with it. Ignoring it and cussing it won't solve it.

2. ALPA needs some major overhauling. We are going to have to start working on a national seniority list concept and barriers to entry. Without the ability to move laterally and with the ability to train an airline pilot in 10-12 months, our leverage is severly limited. How can we compare ourselves to lawyers, doctors, and accountants? How many doctors, lawyers, and accountants have to start all over at the bottom if they change employers? How many doctors, lawyers, and accountants can go from no experience to employed in 10-12 months?

3. Quit using scope to divide us and start using it to unify us. The Northwest pilots just created yet another alter-ego carrier and agreed to fly 78 seaters for less than we currently fly the 70 seater for. They left their Meseba and Pinnacle "brothers" hanging in the wind, along with all of us who rely on pattern bargaining.

I could go on, but there is a start.....

 

[Turkey Shoot]

That depends on what your "end game" is. These negotiations are not what I consider the "end game" anymore. We need to lay a foundation to regain some leverage and it won't be easy nor quick.

1. First we need to stop the bleeding. Do whatever it takes to keep as much flying as we can. You can call it "pay to play" or "whorring yourself out", but I call it living to fight another day. Whether you like it or not, ALPA has helped management create this competitive environment and we must deal with it. Ignoring it and cussing it won't solve it.

2. ALPA needs some major overhauling. We are going to have to start working on a national seniority list concept and barriers to entry. Without the ability to move laterally and with the ability to train an airline pilot in 10-12 months, our leverage is severly limited. How can we compare ourselves to lawyers, doctors, and accountants? How many doctors, lawyers, and accountants have to start all over at the bottom if they change employers? How many doctors, lawyers, and accountants can go from no experience to employed in 10-12 months?

3. Quit using scope to divide us and start using it to unify us. The Northwest pilots just created yet another alter-ego carrier and agreed to fly 78 seaters for less than we currently fly the 70 seater for. They left their Meseba and Pinnacle "brothers" hanging in the wind, along with all of us who rely on pattern bargaining.

I could go on, but there is a start.....

Joe,
You have to quit. You're making sense and you know we can't have any of that while the union boys froth at the mouth.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe,
You have to quit. You're making sense and you know we can't have any of that while the union boys froth at the mouth.

I know TurkeyShoot, I have been beating my head against the Herndon wall for years now. Instead of long term strategic planning, ALPA prefers bag stickers, slogans, and study committees.

 

[Tomct]

Turkey, the skwst guys/gals don't say anything because it would not matter, uncle Jerry does whatever he wants!

 

[SilverandSore]

Sure, the company moved... for the captains. The paycut on the 70 actually INCREASED from 8 to 13% for FOs. If you do the math that puts 70 FOs paid less than 50 FOs. Makes perfect sense, right?

That way they can get the majority to approve of it because it screws a minority of the FOs (screw the 70 FOs). Then, once it passes, they start swapping out 50s for 70s and guess what? You've approved a pay cut either way you slice it.

The other thing that people keep forgetting is that we have lower operating costs than most so even though it looks like they're going to 'take' our 70s...90's (whatever), Delta still needs that lift out of Atlanta and ASA has to do 80% of it (contract). It's all smoke and mirrors to increase profitability on an already very profitable unit (ASA).

Hold the line, don't vote in a concessionary contract for growth.

 

[Tomct]

AMEN Silverandsore!! I and the majority of the pilot group AGREE with YOU! No Concessions!!! Yes for me on the STRIKE VOTE!!!

 

[John Pennekamp]

That depends on what your "end game" is. These negotiations are not what I consider the "end game" anymore. We need to lay a foundation to regain some leverage and it won't be easy nor quick.

1. First we need to stop the bleeding. Do whatever it takes to keep as much flying as we can. You can call it "pay to play" or "whorring yourself out", but I call it living to fight another day. Whether you like it or not, ALPA has helped management create this competitive environment and we must deal with it. Ignoring it and cussing it won't solve it.

I must disagree.

We can't give in to the pay to play game, because it is a slippery slope. Ask the Comair pilots where it got them.

2. ALPA needs some major overhauling. We are going to have to start working on a national seniority list concept and barriers to entry. Without the ability to move laterally and with the ability to train an airline pilot in 10-12 months, our leverage is severly limited. How can we compare ourselves to lawyers, doctors, and accountants? How many doctors, lawyers, and accountants have to start all over at the bottom if they change employers? How many doctors, lawyers, and accountants can go from no experience to employed in 10-12 months?

With this I agree. What's the solution to it? Figure that out and you should get DW's job. ALPA will never get one seniority list because it's not a real union... it's an Association. Too many people in ALPA will always look out for #1. How will you change that?

3. Quit using scope to divide us and start using it to unify us. The Northwest pilots just created yet another alter-ego carrier and agreed to fly 78 seaters for less than we currently fly the 70 seater for. They left their Meseba and Pinnacle "brothers" hanging in the wind, along with all of us who rely on pattern bargaining.

I could go on, but there is a start.....

See question number two. It's one thing to make big talk, another to make it happen. How will you make it happen.

 

["GO AROUND"]

1x1, it was actually ALPA that started out stalling negotiations 4 years ago. ALPA wanted to drag out negotiations until such time as the industry improved.

Get off it Joe, Both sides had the same idea, but DAL's idea was to do it from the start until they could sell us. Which happened to be 3 yrs.

The union chose to negotiate the whole time, but use the IBB technique which we knew was slow. The CNC always showed up prepared and ready to negotiate 100% of the time. Can't say the same about managment can we?

Yeah, it was a tactic cause everyone thought things would improve. They took that bet with everyone in the industry and were wrong.