Whats next for ASA????

[Bizjet]

Get off it Joe, Both sides had the same idea, but DAL's idea was to do it from the start until they could sell us. Which happened to be 3 yrs.

The union chose to negotiate the whole time, but use the IBB technique which we knew was slow. The CNC always showed up prepared and ready to negotiate 100% of the time. Can't say the same about managment can we?

Yeah, it was a tactic cause everyone thought things would improve. They took that bet with everyone in the industry and were wrong.

Go Around,

Joe is once again misrepresenting the facts. There were 11 different possible scenarios discussed. There were pros and cons to each and there was NEVER one that was selected as THE strategy. Joe spent most of his time surfing the Internet and had very little interaction within the Strategic Planning Committee. He was detached and bored. He couldn't get himself or his girl friend installed as CNC chairman so he fiddled. He wants to be noticed and he was. He did nothing in the way of meaningful work. He will continue to make false statements but they will now be challenged. If he were truly concerned about any one but himself he would do his job as LEC Sec/Treas., attend Family Awareness events and picket. He is a spoiled brat and if he had a political brain in his thick skull he would understand that our pilots know that you can disagree with the MEC and ALPA but still support the goal of obtaining a fair contract. I fully expect him to SCAB if our pilots walk. He will then be politically DEAD!

 

[JoeMerchant]

I must disagree.

We can't give in to the pay to play game, because it is a slippery slope. Ask the Comair pilots where it got them.

Either stop "pay to play", or compete - those are the two options. Not competing is an more of a slippery slope.

With this I agree. What's the solution to it? Figure that out and you should get DW's job. ALPA will never get one seniority list because it's not a real union... it's an Association. Too many people in ALPA will always look out for #1. How will you change that?

I couldn't have said it better John. See we agree after all. ALPA isn't a true union. I wish I didn't have to pay union dues for a crappy magazine.

See question number two. It's one thing to make big talk, another to make it happen. How will you make it happen.

I can't make it happen. It's obvious that this "association" has neither the will, nor the ability to make it happen. Therefor I think it is time to fire it.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Get off it Joe, Both sides had the same idea, but DAL's idea was to do it from the start until they could sell us. Which happened to be 3 yrs.

The union chose to negotiate the whole time, but use the IBB technique which we knew was slow. The CNC always showed up prepared and ready to negotiate 100% of the time. Can't say the same about managment can we?

Yeah, it was a tactic cause everyone thought things would improve. They took that bet with everyone in the industry and were wrong.

Sorry GO AROUND, the union initially wanted to drag things out. The idea was to wait until the negotiating environment improved.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Go Around,

Joe is once again misrepresenting the facts. There were 11 different possible scenarios discussed. There were pros and cons to each and there was NEVER one that was selected as THE strategy. Joe spent most of his time surfing the Internet and had very little interaction within the Strategic Planning Committee. He was detached and bored. He couldn't get himself or his girl friend installed as CNC chairman so he fiddled. He wants to be noticed and he was. He did nothing in the way of meaningful work. He will continue to make false statements but they will now be challenged. If he were truly concerned about any one but himself he would do his job as LEC Sec/Treas., attend Family Awareness events and picket. He is a spoiled brat and if he had a political brain in his thick skull he would understand that our pilots know that you can disagree with the MEC and ALPA but still support the goal of obtaining a fair contract. I fully expect him to SCAB if our pilots walk. He will then be politically DEAD!

1. No you and John P. are misrepresenting the facts. Obviously I've hit a nerve and the ALPA spindoctors are working full time to silence those who dare speak out against it.

2. ALPA's initial strategy was to slow down the process so as to have a more favorable industry when the money issues were negotiated.

3. Wasn't on the Strategic Planning Committee, I was on the Contract Study Committee. However the only member of the Strategic Planning Committee who went on to the Negotiating Committee, resigned out of frustration with the way the Committee was being run. In fact over half of the original "A Team" was either fired or resigned do to disagreement over how things were being run.

4. I participated in every informational picketing event in '97/'98. I participated in the CMR informational picketing we had in ATL. It is a total waste of time when this union then allows a striking carrier to move passengers and aircraft from a striking carrier to another ALPA carrier as management did during the CMR strike. This union is a joke - and informational picketing is an insult.

5. This union is already DEAD, you just haven't realized it yet.

 

[Bizjet]

1. No you and John P. are misrepresenting the facts. Obviously I've hit a nerve and the ALPA spindoctors are working full time to silence those who dare speak out against it.

Again you are not telling the truth. You have had the freedom to spin your ANTI ALPA/MEC lies for too long. You didn't hit a nerve you just crossed the line. Do you want to tell all our pilots how you and your older lady friend were getting negotiation notes from Ms Diamond. Are you not smart enough to understand the ramifications of your and your older girl friends actions? The same Ms. Diamond who was calling for your removal from the Contract Study Committee because you were a waste of time and money. She constantly whined about you to the CNC Chairman. John Rice was loyal to you till the end. Even when you were trying to destabilize his postition so your older lady friend could take over. You are fooling no one and you will be held accountable.

2. ALPA's initial strategy was to slow down the process so as to have a more favorable industry when the money issues were negotiated.

Again John Boys revisionist history.

3. Wasn't on the Strategic Planning Committee, I was on the Contract Study Committee. However the only member of the Strategic Planning Committee who went on to the Negotiating Committee, resigned out of frustration with the way the Committee was being run. In fact over half of the original "A Team" was either fired or resigned do to disagreement over how things were being run.

They like you were removed or resigned because they were trying to take over the CNC and they were the most junior inexperienced members. You were not selected to advance to the CNC because the level of trust in you was just not there. Our MEC Chairman should have resigned for letting someone like you with an ANTI ALPA agenda sit on the CSC. He was warned by all of us that were here in '98' that you and your older girl friend could never be trusted after your actions in '98'.

4. I participated in every informational picketing event in '97/'98. I participated in the CMR informational picketing we had in ATL. It is a total waste of time when this union then allows a striking carrier to move passengers and aircraft from a striking carrier to another ALPA carrier as management did during the CMR strike. This union is a joke - and informational picketing is an insult.

Well you are certainly MISSING IN ACTION TODAY JOHNNY!!!! You are so full of hatred that you don't have a clue what most pilots think of your inactions. ARE YOU GOING TO SCAB? You have been quoted as saying you will not walk off your job for this MEC. Please tell us! I certainly hope you do. You are so politically void of reason you will probably scab so you can fill that role you are writing for yourself-- JOHN, ALPA VICTIM AND MARTYR! At least if you scab there will be only a 50% pay reduction in the... family income. Or will it be 100%???

5. This union is already DEAD, you just haven't realized it yet.

You are digging your own political grave spoiled one!! ALPA is certainly not perfect but you can sit in corners and hold your breath until you turn blue and no one will even notice. It may have worked on your parents when you were a kid but there is no time for your childish antics now.

Moderator reviewed.

 

[BobbyBiplane]

Mr. Bizjet:

Your rant is the definition of childish. Try acting like a professional.

Bob

 

["GO AROUND"]

Sorry GO AROUND, the union initially wanted to drag things out. The idea was to wait until the negotiating environment improved.

I never denied it and neither has anyone in the MEC that I have asked. I understood why they started slow. Doesn't change the fact that they were negotiating nevertheless. You spin it like they didn't negotiate at all and the company was. They made progress in that first year and who knew the industry would stay in the toilet so long. Oh, I guess you did? right?

 

[John Pennekamp]

Either stop "pay to play", or compete - those are the two options. Not competing is an more of a slippery slope.




I couldn't have said it better John. See we agree after all. ALPA isn't a true union. I wish I didn't have to pay union dues for a crappy magazine.




I can't make it happen. It's obvious that this "association" has neither the will, nor the ability to make it happen. Therefor I think it is time to fire it.

We agree on the problem, but not the solution. WHAT'S THE SOLUTION?

Shall we go non union all together?
Shall we start our own union?

What's the answer, John?

 

[John Pennekamp]

Mr. Bizjet:

Your rant is the definition of childish. Try acting like a professional.

Bob

Care to define "professionalism" for us?

Bobby, while the rant may be childish, NOTHING Bizjet said is untrue. If you don't believe me than ask any of us who were involved in ALPA in the mid to late 90s.

And don't impersonate Bob Arnold with your signature to try and build credibility.

 

[BobbyBiplane]

Professional - applied to describe a person (or work of such a person) with the following attributes: service orientation, making expertise available to others, based on a distinctive body of knowledge and skills underpinned by abilities and values, autonomy in performing working within defined boundaries, public recognition of the authority of the practitioner by virtue of working to ethical standards and being accountable.

Who is Bob Arnold?

Bob