What is going on at Avantair?

[gunfyter]

Let me rephrase NJW's question:

Do you think NJ Teamster pilots have anything to do with the fact that you get Prospective Rest? Free from the responsibility to answer telephone calls and pagers? As required by the FARs...

What? you don't get Prospective rest?

I don't mean to kick anyone while they're down.... If you guys can get everything you should have without a Union... more power to you.

But to say a 7/7 schedule is not owed to NJ pilots is like saying Fractional Ownership was not invented by NJ management.

 

[brewerdog]

...and don't call me shirley

 

[glasspilot]

But to say a 7/7 schedule is not owed to NJ pilots is like saying Fractional Ownership was not invented by NJ management.

I'll say it. A 7/7 sched was not invented or owed to NJ pilots. Oil rigs at sea have been doing it for decades. It's in the company's interest to commute you as little as possible. Heck, if the pilots would agree to 6 months on / 6 months off the company would sport wood!

I'll also say Fractional Ownership was not invented by NJ management. At the very least it's a spin off the time share philosophy which has been around forever. Cave men time shared their caves...I'm sure of it. Anyway, NetJets is King of the fractional world, I'll stipulate to that. But don't sit up on your throne with your fortune 100 company backing and throw cake for all us peasants eat. And don't think we owe our existence to NetJets either. You were the first. Kudos to you. PanAm was the first too and look at them now. There's enough rich people for us all put forth our business plans and see what works and what doesn't.

 

[gunfyter]

I think You are Living in DENIAL.

 

[glasspilot]

I think You are Living in DENIAL.

Good counter point. I must say, I think you have won the debate and I have changed my position. In one sentence you shot down both of my assertions. While most people use words stringed together into sentences to express ideas and thoughts, you have used "CAPS LOCK".

Nicely done.

 

[gunfyter]

I am a minimalist. I did all that was necessary to the satisfaction of anyone with their eyes open.

If you want to believe your company would even exist if it were not for RTS ... If you want to believe you would have 7/7 if we did not have it ... go right ahead.

As for the future of various Fractional airlines...

You need to look at these companies like the Cell Phone networks..

It the Network stupid.

The Phones are throw-away items.

Likewise the airplanes... are relatively throw-away items.

NetJets is building a global network that may be impossible for anyone else to match. While I have said the airplanes are throw-away items like cellphones... You can't build this kind of network with a one size fits all Airplane... whether its a G-V, Falcon or P180.

"We've had dumb competitors in the past, and they bleed. We've got more blood than they've got." -WJB​

I don't know what your management has up its sleeve... but hopefully its more than basing a business on selling one type of airplane.

And hopefully NJ management will not screw up along the way in building the global network we are trying to build. We are saving you a seat.

 

[brewerdog]

all hail NetJets

in NJA we trust

​

wn

 

[netjetwife]

I wouldn't go that far, BD... but thanks for the vote of confidence...

Just by virtue of its size NJA does impact the industry. Likewise, the other fracs have the power to support the gains that have been made by the larger frac companies. By whatever means available to your group, if ya'll will also demand the industry standards in pay, scheduling, benefits, and QOL the whole industry would become stronger and turn into the career that each of you deserves by dint of your professional skills and experience that has built the frac industry.

Maybe it's a gender difference, maybe the evidence of the type A personality many pilots are rumored to have, but I've never understood why ya'll spend more time tearing each other down rather than pulling each other up...

It seems to me that you'd be pleased to be able to point out to your respective managers that the majority of frac pilots make $$ for pay, have XX for benefits, and work the 7&7 schedule. It validates your complaint of receiving sub-par returns for the same provision of service.

From my perspective, It's not about pilot egos it's about working together so that all our frac families can obtain the professional lifestyle that should rightfully be theirs because the pilots have definitely earned it and their families have backed them up and made that career possible. Think about it please. Whether you guys want to admit it or not, we're all in this together. The ripples can go across the industry whether it's from one large NJ rock tossed in or a handful of frac pebbles thrown at the same time. NJW

 

[glasspilot]

I used to serve in the military. I was based in Japan for 3 years. I was single but many of the service men brought their wives and kids over for their tour. A very common complaint of the wives in the military (especially in Japan because almost all of their friends are other military wives) is that the wife takes on the rank of her husband. It's not a formal rule or anything but it happens. An enlisted mans wife knows her husband is enlisted and would act differently towards the wife of an officer. The ships Captains wife takes on the lead of all the wives and her only "equals" are the other ships Captains wives. If there's a fight or a spat between two wives then the rank system comes in and you can bet the junior husband will hear from the senior husband. Sounds crazy but that is the way it is.

I share this because I've been sensing something on this board and couldn't quite put my finger on it but now I know what it is. Some of the posts from NetJets pilots (and one wife) sound like the same crap that the Navy wives were doing.

This whole NetJets is bigger and I work for them so therefore I outrank you. Posts like, "You owe your pay, your schedule to NetJets.", or, "We helped CS and CS helped avantair so avantair owes NetJets", or, "our dumb competitors have blood blah blah blah", or, "NetJets is the big rock and your the little pebbles".

Whatever! I don't owe my pay, my sched, or anything else to NetJets. Call yourself a "rock" if you want but it comes off degrading to be referred to as a pebble. I know your proud of your outfit but I'm proud of mine too and I certainly don't look UP to you. I'm here cause I want to be. I know you find it hard to believe but I didn't and don't want to work for NetJets.

Aviation is cyclical. No airline has made it to the top and stayed there. PanAm, Easteren, Braniff, United, TWA, U.S. Airways, Northwest. All busted or broke. NetJets will undoubtedly fail too someday. Nothing lasts forever.

 

[C425Driver]

Glass,

Thank you for the great post!

C425Driver