What is going on at Avantair?

[P180puke]

I certainly won't expect any apologies, but I do love being right. (i.e. "avantair called" thread) Besides, most that you mention Noodles were management,they don't count......and obviously can't manage.

I'm happy for the changes and it's a positive thing, however solidarity could be better assured by a change upstairs. Purely my opinion.

 

[netjetwife]

My Avantair source would probably agree. He tells me that there is an in-house advisory group of pilots, but upper management doesn't listen... I found the article interesting. It sounds as though Avantair may have found their special niche in the frac industry. That would be good. I just hope the pilots get rewarded for helping to build the business. Let's hope the new influence can usher in needed changes. NJW

 

[Noodles]

In my opinion, the pilot advisory group was just a way for management to say they were doing something, without really having to do something. I think they never had any intention of listening to suggestions, even from the beginning. It was just a simple way to head off talk of a union.

 

[Dilligaff]

So you got "spooked" by the discussion on the other thread? NJW

Spooked? By you? Lady, you're nuts! I can't get my head around the spin that you put on this. The reality of it is that after discussing it with a few other Avantair employees on PM's, I agreed that I shouldn't have posted it and I removed it. Again, you had nothing to do with the removal of that thread.

You don't spook me at all. You sure are full of yourself, aren't you?

Dilligaff

 

[C425Driver]

D,

My suggestion to you is to stop engaging her. She has one agenda only and that's to boost her union numbers/dollars any way possible. It is a futile effort to try to reason with her otherwise. I think we both know the culture at Avantair and we also know that she's not going to win her battle on FI.

On a different note, that's an interesting picture of the Avanti in your avatar. Is that one of the prototypes with the different windscreen configuration? Also looks like there are not any boots on the engine inlets - were they heated at one time?

C425Driver

 

[netjetwife]

In my opinion, the pilot advisory group was just a way for management to say they were doing something, without really having to do something. I think they never had any intention of listening to suggestions, even from the beginning. It was just a simple way to head off talk of a union.

I think that is very likely and a good assessment of the situation. Management quite often only listens to a union because they legally have to. It's all up to the managers. In some companies an advisory group might work, in others it never will. I fully support the pilots in their efforts to bring their pay and work rules up to the professional standards they deserve--by whatever method works for their group. Unfortunately, I think that too many efforts will meet with the disappoint you describe unless the pilots have the clout of union backing, and a written contract that the company is bound to legally.

 

[Dilligaff]

D,

My suggestion to you is to stop engaging her. She has one agenda only and that's to boost her union numbers/dollars any way possible. It is a futile effort to try to reason with her otherwise. I think we both know the culture at Avantair and we also know that she's not going to win her battle on FI.

On a different note, that's an interesting picture of the Avanti in your avatar. Is that one of the prototypes with the different windscreen configuration? Also looks like there are not any boots on the engine inlets - were they heated at one time?

C425Driver

Good point. Everyone I talk to at work enjoys it here and is happy with what we have so far. I'm looking forward to our continued success. How we proceed will be dicided by us, and not influenced some uninformed outsider with an ulterior motive.

Regarding the avatar. As I recall it was a prototype and I think the pic was taken at it's first appearance to the Paris Airshow in '87 or '88 (hard to beleive this plane has been around that long!). I'm not sure about the inlet heat but some form of heat rather than the inflatable boots that it would be a good guess.

Dilligaff

 

[netjetwife]

......She has one agenda only and that's to boost her union numbers/dollars any way possible. It is a futile effort to try to reason with her otherwise. I think we both know the culture at Avantair and we also know that she's not going to win her battle on FI.....C425Driver

The one agenda comment is half way right. I'd like to see all frac pilots have professional compensation and work rules. I think that would make the industry better for all involved. When NJ pilots bargain for their contract they don't have to worry about CS being used as a comp to pull wages down. Flt Options is currently trying to help establish the industry standard, but are the others?

Boost the union dollars?... Hardly! Helping another group often costs money. Contract battles can get expensive. Furthermore, the pilot groups will have their own leaders and be in charge of their own dues. The only benefit to NJ pilots is that the industry becomes stronger. If the other frac pilots pull up wages at their companies on their own, it's easier and cheaper on the NJ pilots. My friends on the Organizing Committee would have a lot more of their free time to themselves again.

I strongly encourage those who dislike reading my posts to put me on their ignore lists. That said, I'm aware that some members of the board just like to argue for argument's sake. As for myself, we all know that I post here because of my agenda....
NJW

 

[CherryBomb]

In aviation it takes a HUGE furtune of money to make a small fortune...

 

[myrealnameis]

Regarding the avatar. As I recall it was a prototype and I think the pic was taken at it's first appearance to the Paris Airshow in '87 or '88 (hard to beleive this plane has been around that long!). I'm not sure about the inlet heat but some form of heat rather than the inflatable boots that it would be a good guess.

Dilligaff

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0787664/M/

Here is a better pic. That is one of the older prototypes dont know what type of anti-ice it had. Take a good look at the gear doors on the nose also, those have since been changed, they close after gear extension now. I heard the oldest one is due to be retired soon from flight testing. There is another prototype (#2 I think) that has the same wierd windscreen but has been upgraded to the Proline 21 avionics suite for testing and certification. It was recently retrofited with the new -66Bs for testing. I think they only made 2 with the 4 piece windscreen, both being prototypes.

 

[C425Driver]

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0787664/M/

Here is a better pic. That is one of the older prototypes dont know what type of anti-ice it had. Take a good look at the gear doors on the nose also, those have since been changed, they close after gear extension now. I heard the oldest one is due to be retired soon from flight testing. There is another prototype (#2 I think) that has the same wierd windscreen but has been upgraded to the Proline 21 avionics suite for testing and certification. It was recently retrofited with the new -66Bs for testing. I think they only made 2 with the 4 piece windscreen, both being prototypes.

Nice Pic! It looks like the landing light may be on the nose gear strut (or maybe just something shining behind the gear). There's also an air scoop below the engine nacelle that's not on the production models. Cool plane - I really enjoy flying it.

 

[johnsonrod]

Avanti IIs

I know that this has been discussed before, but how long before we see an Avanti II on the line with Avantair? It's still unclear in terms of timing. Have you guys trained some pilots on the new aircraft? Have shares been sold in the new aircraft? How many should be expected on the line by year end?

 

[whiskytangofoxt]

Yes one and two have the strange windscreen cira-88
II's on line maybe Saturday, rumor has it 5 on line by November, PT66B's 1/07

 

[C425Driver]

WTF,

How many II's are on property now? I heard we picked up the second II last week. Any truth to that?

C425Driver

 

[Noodles]

Shares have already been sold out for awhile on at least 3 of the II's.

 

[C425Driver]

I just read the latest company email. We have taken delivery of three Avanti II's with more to come! Good news for us!

C425Driver

 

[myrealnameis]

I know that this has been discussed before, but how long before we see an Avanti II on the line with Avantair? It's still unclear in terms of timing. Have you guys trained some pilots on the new aircraft? Have shares been sold in the new aircraft? How many should be expected on the line by year end?

I believe we have owership of 3 right at this moment, 1 is being used for training and the other 2 I think need to get a conformity with the feds. Piaggio has another 2 I believe to be delivered any day now. You can keep tabs on the AII's on flightaware.com a/c are: 140sl 143sl 108sl 150sl and 156sl are in the country now. You can check registrations on the faa website 157sl - 159sl are in the pipeline. With the merger near complete I bet we will start getting new airplanes at a rapid rate.

 

[citationsarejun]

Posted by njw
This sounds quite familiar. The company is bringing in money but chooses to invest in its infrastructure rather than its pilots. njw



I am laughing so hard i don't even know where to begin. What business training do you have? Just because we are pilots doesn't mean we are brainless. It is this kind of statement that makes me question my profession. A good solid infrastructure is the key to any successful business and often costs the most to build. Without it we would be jobless. Most of us are smarter than you think.

 

[citationsarejun]

by the way congratulations Avantair pilots sounds like good news. Cool airplane and have always liked the company and concept

 

[netjetwife]

Based on common sense and human nature, I'm suggesting that a balanced approach is wiser in the long run. In your profession, training is very expensive so a high turn over rate due to pilot dissatisfaction and low morale is a high cost that could be avoided. It's common knowledge that employees that feel respected and valued are more productive and loyal. It is also inherently unfair to balance the budget and/or grow the company at the expense of one group of employees. Evidence of that happening is seen in the fact that Avantair pilots are receiving sub-par wages (less than industry standard) for their skills and contribution to the company. That situation, left unchecked, will breed resentment which in turns leads to lowered productivity and increased attrition. That is counter-productive and does no one any good. Sometimes managers need to be forced to make sound decisions for the future. Anyone can get caught up in the plan of the moment and become oblivious to the consequences--that is simply human nature. Until the grumbling gets too loud they'll continue to ignore it, right or wrong.

But don't take my word for it....just look at NJA. They finally settled with the pilots and profits are up, pilots are pleased, and the union and the company are working on joint projects that are estimated to save millions. It's like a 3-legged race; the team that works together the best comes out ahead. None of us needs a business degree to understand that. NJW