What is going on at Avantair?

[Flybet3]

You know, for someone that's only been here since June, you have awfully strong opinions. Did they sprinkle too much kool-aid in those burgers you were grilling in your room at PBI during training??

How did you know? goooood stuff

 

[C425Driver]

Amen, Jolimon!

 

[netjetwife]

J, That would be your own personal opinion, would it not? And, as has been pointed out, none of us has the right to speak for others. That seems fair enough, and it explains the discrepancy between your opinion and others that are expressed to me. Feel free to put me on your ignore list if my empathetic, supportive posts bother you. That is not my intention and I was under the impression that we can all share our input if done civilly.

BTW, I did answer the question, D. (where did that post go?) And, to further explain and help your confusion on the 7&7 question. I had asked if the pilot thought there was any connection. My next post addressed the possible influence of market forces. So both are connected and the comment you question is right on topic and confirms, rather than contradicts. Isn't the problem more aligned with the number of days off, rather than those spent on tour? Asking an opinion wasn't asking for credit? In fact I even stated that I was merely curious. Sorry to disappoint you there, D. There was no burning fervor, only curiosity about the interaction of the industry. I'll save you the angst next time and put the pilot's name on the post that I'm asking the question of. I mistakenly thought my post was clear enough.


D, you're quite confused this evening. I answered the question on the thread that you posted it. 2 down from your post asking the question. I've brought it to this thread, as well. Whatever you think of my ideals. You can never fairly accuse me of dodging the issue or being impolite.

The information about NJ that I post here is available on their board. I relay observations that many there share. Additionally, I post my own informed opinion that their situation has greatly improved with the leadership of a Strong Union. Consider it a frac-friendly attitude that I'd like to see the other frac families have the same type of contract and QOL.

My apologies to those who had already this portion of my post previously. As we all know, I'm a firm believer in standing up for one's self and in setting the record straight.

 

[brewerdog]

thank the gods - Net Jet Wife is here to help

what is a thread w/o her

pass the koolaid and cash the paycheck (for flying or not)

 

[netjetwife]

Actually I do quite a bit of that, as my PMs attest. Many of us here realize that the message board is only half the story....

 

[phil]

You all are just nasty folks, no matter who it is that voices an opinion different than yours, you drive them into the dirt. You obviously have an axe to grind, it is apparant to all that read your posts. None of the other Fracs act like this, what a classy oufit. Disgusting.

This I have to agree with Noodle d**K...Getting a check while you sit all day and scratch your balls is not such a bad thing. Well in my case my wife does me the favor OH YEAH!! A little more to the left...there ya go!

Classy, as usual..

 

[Snakum]

as has been pointed out, none of us has the right to speak for others.

That sure doesn't seem to deter you from trying at every opportunity, though does it?

Phil = NJW's support login?

 

[phil]

Hey, you can bash NJW all you want, just be a gentleman about it. I usually am against unions and hate the powers that be behind the union, but in avatiar's case I think that a union would be an improvement.

 

[Mr. Pebbles]

NJW, again, you know nothing of what you speak of. Your constant babble will cause me to throw out my card every time it shows up. I haven't posted here in ages because I have been flying, collecting my paycheck, taking two weeks paid vacation, and watching all the new owners coming onboard. There are some very positive things going on here, we don't need your input, empathy, or anything else.

We all know you dont fly the line, so why don't you stay out of this, J.

 

[Mr. Pebbles]

NJW, again, you know nothing of what you speak of. Your constant babble will cause me to throw out my card every time it shows up. I haven't posted here in ages because I have been flying, collecting my paycheck, taking two weeks paid vacation, and watching all the new owners coming onboard. There are some very positive things going on here, we don't need your input, empathy, or anything else.[/quote

..........

 

[gunfyter]

Let me rephrase NJW's question:

Do you think NJ Teamster pilots have anything to do with the fact that you get Prospective Rest? Free from the responsibility to answer telephone calls and pagers? As required by the FARs...

What? you don't get Prospective rest?

I don't mean to kick anyone while they're down.... If you guys can get everything you should have without a Union... more power to you.

But to say a 7/7 schedule is not owed to NJ pilots is like saying Fractional Ownership was not invented by NJ management.

 

[brewerdog]

...and don't call me shirley

 

[glasspilot]

But to say a 7/7 schedule is not owed to NJ pilots is like saying Fractional Ownership was not invented by NJ management.

I'll say it. A 7/7 sched was not invented or owed to NJ pilots. Oil rigs at sea have been doing it for decades. It's in the company's interest to commute you as little as possible. Heck, if the pilots would agree to 6 months on / 6 months off the company would sport wood!

I'll also say Fractional Ownership was not invented by NJ management. At the very least it's a spin off the time share philosophy which has been around forever. Cave men time shared their caves...I'm sure of it. Anyway, NetJets is King of the fractional world, I'll stipulate to that. But don't sit up on your throne with your fortune 100 company backing and throw cake for all us peasants eat. And don't think we owe our existence to NetJets either. You were the first. Kudos to you. PanAm was the first too and look at them now. There's enough rich people for us all put forth our business plans and see what works and what doesn't.

 

[gunfyter]

I think You are Living in DENIAL.

 

[glasspilot]

I think You are Living in DENIAL.

Good counter point. I must say, I think you have won the debate and I have changed my position. In one sentence you shot down both of my assertions. While most people use words stringed together into sentences to express ideas and thoughts, you have used "CAPS LOCK".

Nicely done.

 

[gunfyter]

I am a minimalist. I did all that was necessary to the satisfaction of anyone with their eyes open.

If you want to believe your company would even exist if it were not for RTS ... If you want to believe you would have 7/7 if we did not have it ... go right ahead.

As for the future of various Fractional airlines...

You need to look at these companies like the Cell Phone networks..

It the Network stupid.

The Phones are throw-away items.

Likewise the airplanes... are relatively throw-away items.

NetJets is building a global network that may be impossible for anyone else to match. While I have said the airplanes are throw-away items like cellphones... You can't build this kind of network with a one size fits all Airplane... whether its a G-V, Falcon or P180.

"We've had dumb competitors in the past, and they bleed. We've got more blood than they've got." -WJB​

I don't know what your management has up its sleeve... but hopefully its more than basing a business on selling one type of airplane.

And hopefully NJ management will not screw up along the way in building the global network we are trying to build. We are saving you a seat.

 

[brewerdog]

all hail NetJets

in NJA we trust

​

wn

 

[netjetwife]

I wouldn't go that far, BD... but thanks for the vote of confidence...

Just by virtue of its size NJA does impact the industry. Likewise, the other fracs have the power to support the gains that have been made by the larger frac companies. By whatever means available to your group, if ya'll will also demand the industry standards in pay, scheduling, benefits, and QOL the whole industry would become stronger and turn into the career that each of you deserves by dint of your professional skills and experience that has built the frac industry.

Maybe it's a gender difference, maybe the evidence of the type A personality many pilots are rumored to have, but I've never understood why ya'll spend more time tearing each other down rather than pulling each other up...

It seems to me that you'd be pleased to be able to point out to your respective managers that the majority of frac pilots make $$ for pay, have XX for benefits, and work the 7&7 schedule. It validates your complaint of receiving sub-par returns for the same provision of service.

From my perspective, It's not about pilot egos it's about working together so that all our frac families can obtain the professional lifestyle that should rightfully be theirs because the pilots have definitely earned it and their families have backed them up and made that career possible. Think about it please. Whether you guys want to admit it or not, we're all in this together. The ripples can go across the industry whether it's from one large NJ rock tossed in or a handful of frac pebbles thrown at the same time. NJW

 

[glasspilot]

I used to serve in the military. I was based in Japan for 3 years. I was single but many of the service men brought their wives and kids over for their tour. A very common complaint of the wives in the military (especially in Japan because almost all of their friends are other military wives) is that the wife takes on the rank of her husband. It's not a formal rule or anything but it happens. An enlisted mans wife knows her husband is enlisted and would act differently towards the wife of an officer. The ships Captains wife takes on the lead of all the wives and her only "equals" are the other ships Captains wives. If there's a fight or a spat between two wives then the rank system comes in and you can bet the junior husband will hear from the senior husband. Sounds crazy but that is the way it is.

I share this because I've been sensing something on this board and couldn't quite put my finger on it but now I know what it is. Some of the posts from NetJets pilots (and one wife) sound like the same crap that the Navy wives were doing.

This whole NetJets is bigger and I work for them so therefore I outrank you. Posts like, "You owe your pay, your schedule to NetJets.", or, "We helped CS and CS helped avantair so avantair owes NetJets", or, "our dumb competitors have blood blah blah blah", or, "NetJets is the big rock and your the little pebbles".

Whatever! I don't owe my pay, my sched, or anything else to NetJets. Call yourself a "rock" if you want but it comes off degrading to be referred to as a pebble. I know your proud of your outfit but I'm proud of mine too and I certainly don't look UP to you. I'm here cause I want to be. I know you find it hard to believe but I didn't and don't want to work for NetJets.

Aviation is cyclical. No airline has made it to the top and stayed there. PanAm, Easteren, Braniff, United, TWA, U.S. Airways, Northwest. All busted or broke. NetJets will undoubtedly fail too someday. Nothing lasts forever.

 

[C425Driver]

Glass,

Thank you for the great post!

C425Driver