What is going on at Avantair?

[P180puke]

We just put in our bids num-nuts

I'm still flying 8 bozo. Geez, you back? Like a turd stuck to my shoe. I noticed though you clammed up when my assessment from a previous thread about funds turned out to be true.

Full of it for someone that has, what, 3 or so whole months under his belt in the right side. You love it here because of the hard work put in from guys like me. You done 10-14 days on the road, most all 14hr + duties. No, didn't think so.

I don't remember ever getting to sit at home awaiting a training capt. either. hey, that must have been nice.

 

[P180puke]

P180 puke do you currently work at avantair? I would hope you would be aware of the bids. what gives

I've bid, but have yet to work ONLY 7. Sure it may be around the corner, maybe next week, but we've been hearing it for years. You know the saying, I'll believe it when it's here.

 

[citationsarejun]

P180 from your post it sounds like the company is on the way up. That is a good thing. Clearly conditions have gotten much better over time more good news. I have had some tough runs as a pilot where the conditions continued to get worse not better. I would stick in there you have made it this far. Good luck

 

[netjetwife]

What is interesting is that all of us like myself who don't work at Avantair assumed the pay was piss poor based on the post by NJW and others on this thread. Now we know it isn't. It is now to the point that there are arguements over whose pay is better. Bottom line they compare pretty favorably and it is good for the industry that they are around. I like the fact that they are not owned by some corporate monster like berkshire or textron.

I agree that the pay scale --alone--is not as poor as one might expect; however, as we have been discussing, professional compensation includes much more. In fact, compensation package, is a commonly used term when professional pay is examined. Additionally, there is the subject of work rules and/or conditions that can greatly affect the QOL on the job. Are the rules guaranteed in a written contract, or can they be changed without notice at the whim of a manager? An 8&6 schedule (if that's what they have) sounds awful. And what happens if there's a disagreement between a pilot and management? How much protection does the pilot have? Who stands up for his/her rights?

I agree the pay could be worse; it could also be better, but those who would like to see improvements there, aren't just talking about the pay. It is the total picture that they are looking at.

Avantair seems to fulfill a niche in the frac industry and I wish them continued success. I also hope the pilots there are amply rewarded for helping to build the business.
Best Wishes,
NJW

 

[gunfyter]

; where was your defense for me Gunfyter? No love?!

Pay raises ONLY happened under the umbrella of a union scare. Period. The PAC has also faded away..

Huh? What did I do?

I didn't know the pay raises came pursuant to a union scare.

Some guy posted 72K at yr 3 ... and I said, "Not so bad."

So these pay raises are basically collateral fallout from the NJA-IBT1108 CBA of 2005? As NJW asked about 100 posts ago. Just like the Flexjet raises and the CS raises.

 

[netjetwife]

Gunfyter, I agree with your assessment and P180's that the pay raises basically resulted from other groups raising the bar. That just proves what can be accomplished if the frac pilots will work together.

As P180 made clear there is a lot of catching up to be done and Avantair has been slow to take care of the pilots who are doing so much to build the business. None of the Avantair pilots should feel bad about insisting on a professional compensation package for their significant contribution to the company's success.

I don't see how anyone can say that P180's justified requests are unreasonable, given that they are all factors that are taken for granted by many professionals in a wide variety of careers--most which do not require the employee to be responsible for lives and expensive aircraft. His list states the basic package that you would think all frac pilots would fight for--

".. reasonable insurance for the family, a vacation and sick day policy, 7 and 7 schedule and maybe a 401k of sorts to help me save for my kids' futures like every other respectable firm..."

 

[Flybet3]

I'm still flying 8 bozo. Geez, you back? Like a turd stuck to my shoe. I noticed though you clammed up when my assessment from a previous thread about funds turned out to be true.

Full of it for someone that has, what, 3 or so whole months under his belt in the right side. You love it here because of the hard work put in from guys like me. You done 10-14 days on the road, most all 14hr + duties. No, didn't think so.

I don't remember ever getting to sit at home awaiting a training capt. either. hey, that must have been nice.

Dude, or Girl I mean...I knew the company was having money problems, but i'm not gonna go on here and start trashing the company just b/c of it. Now if the company screwed us in some way b/c of their money issues, then i would be the first talking trash. But unlike you, I'm not gonna go on here and talk crap about something that i heard, or maybe even saw until i hear the other side of the story. Dumb a$$...I'm like a turd and you're like a bad fart, everyone can smell your stinch, everyone wants to avoide you and you just leave a bad taste on everyones mouth.

 

[Flybet3]

I'm still flying 8 bozo. Geez, you back? Like a turd stuck to my shoe. I noticed though you clammed up when my assessment from a previous thread about funds turned out to be true.

Full of it for someone that has, what, 3 or so whole months under his belt in the right side. You love it here because of the hard work put in from guys like me. You done 10-14 days on the road, most all 14hr + duties. No, didn't think so.

I don't remember ever getting to sit at home awaiting a training capt. either. hey, that must have been nice.

Secondly stop trying to guess how many months I've been here you dumb bi*ch... You wont know figure out who I am, but we all know who you are. GOD I knew everyone said you were white trash, but geesh Woman!

 

[Mr. Pebbles]

Huh? What did I do?

I didn't know the pay raises came pursuant to a union scare.

Some guy posted 72K at yr 3 ... and I said, "Not so bad."

So these pay raises are basically collateral fallout from the NJA-IBT1108 CBA of 2005? As NJW asked about 100 posts ago. Just like the Flexjet raises and the CS raises.

Yes, the pay raise came persuant to a union scare. Not one improvement in this company came on it's own. Every one came when the pilots said, " This is enough." Overtime, better benefits, all that stuff. It's called collective power. The reason nothing gets done in ANY scenario is because people don't stand up for what's fair. People like Flybet don't understand in the least what prior people have gone thro to get Avantair even where it is now. No offense, Flybet, nothing against you, but there's tons of ******************** that went down before you got here.

 

[Flybet3]

Yes, the pay raise came persuant to a union scare. Not one improvement in this company came on it's own. Every one came when the pilots said, " This is enough." Overtime, better benefits, all that stuff. It's called collective power. The reason nothing gets done in ANY scenario is because people don't stand up for what's fair. People like Flybet don't understand in the least what prior people have gone thro to get Avantair even where it is now. No offense, Flybet, nothing against you, but there's tons of ******************** that went down before you got here.

None taken, but trust me dude, I know a couple of people that work there and that worked in the past that have told me some stories about past incidents that make my skin crawl and my blood boil a bit. But the fact of the matter is, that all the guys that have been here for less than a year just cant go by what alot of people say. Some things have gotten better since this company started, NO? We all have some benefits now, we have an OK schedule, and decent job stability. The point I'm trying to make is, that if a year goes by and i dont upgrade here b/c the company has money problems, or they are just trying to "screw" us then i will pack my bags and move on somewhere else better, this ofcourse after i give them an earfull and demand an explanation. That simple. But I'm not gonna go nuts just yet, especially if the company "appears" to be trying to better it self. Neither will I stay for more than a year and start the pebbles, p180 and flybet club... three losers that instead of moving on want to stay and just bitc* and bitc* Or even if I upgrade but they dont provide better benefits for my family, i'm not going to pay the current insurance rate! not at my current salary or captain salary. Then I am gone!! b/c like I said before, I'm not the type to wait on empty promises, I will pour my heart and sould into my work. I will do everything I can, to be the BEST employee and give the company a good image, and profit. But I have to see something in return, better benefits, more respect, more job stabilty and a management attitude of "how can we better this place". If they dont come through, then i wont come through, but I WILL MOVE ONE and not stay here all bitter and sh*t just being the "MISERABLE" and being the guy that no one wants to fly with. I will not make anyone miserable, nor am I going to sound like a broken record! DUDE if you really hate it then leave (p180puke!) now if you're still hanging around is b/c you love it here and are waiting for the best, and have hope that this place will become something great. But if you really hate it, then leave and leave us poor ignorant bast*rds alone. I'm sure if this place really sucks like you all say, then we will see it at some point.

 

[P180puke]

flybet, you're vast imaturity just shines in your posts. The ONLY reason you like it here is because of veterans like MYSELF.

"The point I'm trying to make is, that if a year goes by and i dont upgrade here b/c the company has money problems, or they are just trying to "screw" us then i will pack my bags and move on somewhere else better, this ofcourse after i give them an earfull and demand an explanation."

First off, if you do not upgrade, it will be because of your maturity level that isn't up to that required to make decisions with multiple souls and expensive assets at your discretion. You think that if you work here a year (A WHOLE YEAR?!) you "deserve" an upgrade?

Move on to somewhere else? If you had any experience, you'd understand that usually "somewhere else" means starting all over at the bottom of the ladder. Giving them an earful!? Yea, that'll show em.

That's okay kid, I try to understand and I remember my first job getting paid to fly. But you've hardly been here long enough to preach to me or quantify the sacrifices I and the rest of us have made to pave the road to better futures that you, BY DEFAULT, may reap.

"Now if the company screwed us in some way b/c of their money issues, then i would be the first talking trash" You know NOTHING of my history, yet it would be "okay" if you wanted to talk trash, huh?

Listen, I've paid my dues here and I've earned the right to see good things happen even if I'm a little bitter along the way. But remember that the next job you go to that has it's $hit together and is the end all to be all for you, was created by employees willing to put the extra effort and sacrifices in to making it happen for the company while not selling out in a field where "selling out" is the driving force in a substandard compensated profession. Nothing comes from avantair for the employees that wasn't squeezed from them. You stand by quietly and do nothing, you'll get nothing.

 

[P180puke]

Huh? What did I do?

I didn't know the pay raises came pursuant to a union scare.

Some guy posted 72K at yr 3 ... and I said, "Not so bad."

So these pay raises are basically collateral fallout from the NJA-IBT1108 CBA of 2005? As NJW asked about 100 posts ago. Just like the Flexjet raises and the CS raises.

My bad Gunfyter. Not you. I was responding to Glasspilot's post;
"I'm not sticking up for anyone here one way or the other;But why is it so terrible for a management type to come to these PUBLIC boards. I don't expect any privacy here from management. If employees want a private site there are ways for that to come about but this is a public forum. All you need is an e-mail account. And why is it that we, as line pilots, are "surfing the web" but if management comes into this public forum to see what the state of our industry is and see what other opinions are out there they are "lurking"?

Sorry.

Hey, you don't here "sorry" much around here do you?

 

[Flybet3]

flybet, you're vast imaturity just shines in your posts. The ONLY reason you like it here is because of veterans like MYSELF.

"The point I'm trying to make is, that if a year goes by and i dont upgrade here b/c the company has money problems, or they are just trying to "screw" us then i will pack my bags and move on somewhere else better, this ofcourse after i give them an earfull and demand an explanation."

First off, if you do not upgrade, it will be because of your maturity level that isn't up to that required to make decisions with multiple souls and expensive assets at your discretion. You think that if you work here a year (A WHOLE YEAR?!) you "deserve" an upgrade?

Move on to somewhere else? If you had any experience, you'd understand that usually "somewhere else" means starting all over at the bottom of the ladder. Giving them an earful!? Yea, that'll show em.

That's okay kid, I try to understand and I remember my first job getting paid to fly. But you've hardly been here long enough to preach to me or quantify the sacrifices I and the rest of us have made to pave the road to better futures that you, BY DEFAULT, may reap.

"Now if the company screwed us in some way b/c of their money issues, then i would be the first talking trash" You know NOTHING of my history, yet it would be "okay" if you wanted to talk trash, huh?

Listen, I've paid my dues here and I've earned the right to see good things happen even if I'm a little bitter along the way. But remember that the next job you go to that has it's $hit together and is the end all to be all for you, was created by employees willing to put the extra effort and sacrifices in to making it happen for the company while not selling out in a field where "selling out" is the driving force in a substandard compensated profession. Nothing comes from avantair for the employees that wasn't squeezed from them. You stand by quietly and do nothing, you'll get nothing.

Ok first of you know nothing about my experience level. Secondly stop calling your self a veteran, you're just pissed b/c they've bypassed you for upgrade soooo many times and no one likes to fly with you b/c you're an opinionated, can't fly bi*ch! So stop trying to act like you're a captain on the line. Secondly dip s*it, what have you done to better things around here? nothing! All you do is post crap on flight info, and you hide behind the goddam computer. Have you really told anyone upstrairs how you really feel? And no I'm not gonna upgrade b/c I said so, but b/c I we're growing, they are going to need qualified captains, and yes i know how to be a captain. Hey I already got my 3 letters of rec, 4 actually. you dont know me you bimbo. And no I haven't been standing quitely, I've told the CP and DO as to what I really want to see improvements on. I've done what everyone has done. But of course, you want us all to go in the CP, the Do and SS office and just barge in with torches and swords... How stupid are you? You're a veteran? the company is only 3 years old you stupid woman! There's still more to come, but hey. If you really want s**t to happen, then get off your fat a$$ and go tell TC, KM and SS how you really feel and that since you're a veteran you demand these things! What a fu**ing moron you are.
Anyone else what to comment on this dumb b**ches post.
God what retart, you are with out a doubt the most DEE DEE DEE person

 

[netjetwife]

Can't you manage to discuss the issues without dumping such garbage on the board? Those who post here are usually just trying to learn something about the frac industry, or share their experiences with others. It's the vicious posts that turn others away from this board.

I thought there were rules here against personal attacks? Surely the following from Flybet's post qualifies--can't fly bi*ch! Secondly dip s*it, bimbo. stupid woman! fat a$$ What a fu**ing moron you are. Anyone else what to comment on this dumb b**ches post. God what retart, you are with out a doubt the most DEE DEE DEE person

Yes, I have a comment. I found P180's post full of relevant points and an understanding of what workers go through when their company takes advantage of their desire to help build the business. P180 sounded very much like NJ pilots did a year ago, with regard to the bitterness and determination to collect on overdue IOUs.

Those with a "love it or leave it" attitude are rarely the ones who stick around to improve things. I agree with that point --made by P180--as well.

 

[netjetwife]

Yes, the pay raise came persuant to a union scare. Not one improvement in this company came on it's own. Every one came when the pilots said, " This is enough." Overtime, better benefits, all that stuff. It's called collective power. The reason nothing gets done in ANY scenario is because people don't stand up for what's fair. People like Flybet don't understand in the least what prior people have gone thro to get Avantair even where it is now. No offense, Flybet, nothing against you, but there's tons of ******************** that went down before you got here.

Well said! Collective power is the key, whether it's a Union or an Advisory Council. Absolutely, you have to stand up for yourself and demand what's fair. I notice that P180 said that, too. I concur completely! Best wishes to those standing up and speaking out--regardless of the brand of your soap box.

 

[Flybet3]

Well said! Collective power is the key, whether it's a Union or an Advisory Council. Absolutely, you have to stand up for yourself and demand what's fair. I notice that P180 said that, too. I concur completely! Best wishes to those standing up and speaking out--regardless of the brand of your soap box.

ya'll should just get together and hang out. Unless it's just the same person agreeing to him/her self.

 

[P180puke]

Ok first of you know nothing about my experience level. Secondly stop calling your self a veteran, you're just pissed b/c they've bypassed you for upgrade soooo many times and no one likes to fly with you b/c you're an opinionated, can't fly bi*ch! So stop trying to act like you're a captain on the line. Secondly dip s*it, what have you done to better things around here? nothing! All you do is post crap on flight info, and you hide behind the goddam computer. Have you really told anyone upstrairs how you really feel? And no I'm not gonna upgrade b/c I said so, but b/c I we're growing, they are going to need qualified captains, and yes i know how to be a captain. Hey I already got my 3 letters of rec, 4 actually. you dont know me you bimbo. And no I haven't been standing quitely, I've told the CP and DO as to what I really want to see improvements on. I've done what everyone has done. But of course, you want us all to go in the CP, the Do and SS office and just barge in with torches and swords... How stupid are you? You're a veteran? the company is only 3 years old you stupid woman! There's still more to come, but hey. If you really want s**t to happen, then get off your fat a$$ and go tell TC, KM and SS how you really feel and that since you're a veteran you demand these things! What a fu**ing moron you are.
Anyone else what to comment on this dumb b**ches post.
God what retart, you are with out a doubt the most DEE DEE DEE person

Ooh, you must be like Bob Hoover!

What an intelligent and mature soul you are. Gee, I had you all wrong this whole time. Please, please will you ever accept my apologies? I guess you really showed me.

Truth hurts don't it? Apparently it infuriates too.

 

[fivefootnuthin]

Can we stop with the childish name calling please?? Take it inside will ya?

 

[citationsarejun]

NJW nobody can argue the fact that a pilot who starts day one at avantair will earn more in year 2,3 and probably 4 than if he worked at netjets. The fact is their pay is comparable. In terms of benefits it does take time to get them in place. They have only been in business 4 years i believe. Hopefully they are working on that issue. It sounds like they are pretty responsive whether it is due to pilots screaming and yelling or not. If you really read P180 posts it is clear that there has been major improvements in a short period of time. He/She wants credit for the change which is fine. I realize they don't have a union and you are against that but they appear to be a good company to work for. As i have said before i Know pilots there and they like it alot.

 

[Noodles]

How well people like it tends to depend on two things: Which seat you are in, and what you've done in the past.

I've worked a couple places that are worse, but I've worked several places that were a lot better. Some things have improved since I've been here, but a lot more have gotten worse or not changed at all.

 

[mainiac]

Can we stop with the childish name calling please?? Take it inside will ya?

Boy, I second the motion!
I really wish that every Avantair thread didn't always degenerate to this. It really makes us look like the Kindergarden playground of the Frac industry.

Play nice, no hitting, take naps... (Always worked with my kids anyway!)

 

[citationsarejun]

I agree. I also am troubled by the commenting that is done with little to no info. I was shocked at the salary structure at Avantair. I was reading this thread and assumed my boys over there were making 30 to 40 grand. When my buddy told me he was making 72 grand I almost fell off my chair. As NJW says the purpose of the board is to get info out there. Lets make it accurate though. Now there is a lot of backtracking like at NJ we get more crew meals. Big deal. It looks like the per diem is higher at Avantair anyway. I know some folks come on here with an agenda maybe they feel they were wronged or have a union agenda but lets not slant the truth. That is not the purpose of this site. Just my two cents

 

[Flybet3]

Ooh, you must be like Bob Hoover!

What an intelligent and mature soul you are. Gee, I had you all wrong this whole time. Please, please will you ever accept my apologies? I guess you really showed me.

Truth hurts don't it? Apparently it infuriates too.

What truth?
you know what, more and more you prove to everyone of what an airhead you are. And more and more you show everyone that you are the FO girl that everyone hates to fly with, your responses are of a typical woman. they make no sense, and all they do is try to attack a man's ego. The only thing that frustrates me is as to why avantair keeps employees like you around. Useless as a pilot and useless as an employee. Go and take care of your "female issues" which is what you always do anyways. :smash:

 

[Flybet3]

I agree. I also am troubled by the commenting that is done with little to no info. I was shocked at the salary structure at Avantair. I was reading this thread and assumed my boys over there were making 30 to 40 grand. When my buddy told me he was making 72 grand I almost fell off my chair. As NJW says the purpose of the board is to get info out there. Lets make it accurate though. Now there is a lot of backtracking like at NJ we get more crew meals. Big deal. It looks like the per diem is higher at Avantair anyway. I know some folks come on here with an agenda maybe they feel they were wronged or have a union agenda but lets not slant the truth. That is not the purpose of this site. Just my two cents

I realize that there is a diffence in pay, and I would a heck of alot more pay! but NJ wife needs to realize that we are also flying a 12000 pound turboprop.
As far as I know, our captains are toping out here alot better than some king air 350 and citation captains. With alot more days off. My only beef here now, is the lack of family benefits and policies on sick days and leave of abcense.

 

[netjetwife]

NJW nobody can argue the fact that a pilot who starts day one at avantair will earn more in year 2,3 and probably 4 than if he worked at netjets. The fact is their pay is comparable. In terms of benefits it does take time to get them in place. They have only been in business 4 years i believe. Hopefully they are working on that issue. It sounds like they are pretty responsive whether it is due to pilots screaming and yelling or not. If you really read P180 posts it is clear that there has been major improvements in a short period of time. He/She wants credit for the change which is fine. I realize they don't have a union and you are against that but they appear to be a good company to work for. As i have said before i Know pilots there and they like it alot.

I don't know about the pay; I didn't see a fair comparison. A NJ pilot can make more on the Reserve and that wasn't listed. The list didn't factor in their holiday pay, OT, 401K, health care, etc. It's a lot more complicated than what was posted here. I also think pilots, especially those with families, are choosing the best long term career option, not just looking at the first few years. I think that is how it should be, and that the choices should be a lot closer than they currently are. All frac families deserve a professional compensation package and balanced schedule.

Please don't assign to me opinions that I don't have. I am not against Avantair pilots being non-union. I'm against the fact that they aren't given a professional compensation package, and I don't buy the excuse that it takes over 4 yrs to provide that. They certainly aren't claiming they can't pay the going rate for fuel for the planes, are they? Labor costs are a fact of being in business. The only reason they get away with under-compensating the pilots is because they are allowed to. There is evidence there that when the pilots stand up to the practice improvements happen. I have publicly and privately shown support for the PAC and I hope they are successful.

I have no doubt that pilots like it there. They obviously like to fly and the frac business offers variety that makes the job interesting and challenging. Likewise, the Avantair pilots that I know also enjoy it there and want to make it a job they can afford to keep. Again, they remind me a lot of where the NJ families, my own included, were last year. I wish them all the best!
NJW

 

[hyper]

Boy, I second the motion!
I really wish that every Avantair thread didn't always degenerate to this. It really makes us look like the Kindergarden playground of the Frac industry.

Play nice, no hitting, take naps... (Always worked with my kids anyway!)

I third.

Flybet3: "What truth?
you know what, more and more you prove to everyone of what an airhead you are. And more and more you show everyone that you are the FO girl that everyone hates to fly with, your responses are of a typical woman. they make no sense, and all they do is try to attack a man's ego. The only thing that frustrates me is as to why avantair keeps employees like you around. Useless as a pilot and useless as an employee. Go and take care of your "female issues" which is what you always do anyways. "

One of the most uncalled for and classless posts I've probably ever read on here. Just my .02 though.

 

[netjetwife]

Now there is a lot of backtracking like at NJ we get more crew meals. Big deal. It looks like the per diem is higher at Avantair anyway. I know some folks come on here with an agenda maybe they feel they were wronged or have a union agenda but lets not slant the truth. That is not the purpose of this site. Just my two cents

I agree wholeheartedly and plan to hold your feet to the fire...

Let's not slant the truth. You're taking a per diem question out of context, and ignoring the much more critical factors that I brought up---health care, 401K, OT, holiday pay, days worked, etc.

I can easily drop the union subject. Let's all just talk about professional compensation for frac pilots and how much progress the industry is making. Where do all of our families stand on health care. Who has coverage, who doesn't? What do the Advisory councils need to help them gain better insurance benefits for the pilots? Same for the 401K? What are your goals?

 

[Flybet3]

I third.

Flybet3: "What truth?
you know what, more and more you prove to everyone of what an airhead you are. And more and more you show everyone that you are the FO girl that everyone hates to fly with, your responses are of a typical woman. they make no sense, and all they do is try to attack a man's ego. The only thing that frustrates me is as to why avantair keeps employees like you around. Useless as a pilot and useless as an employee. Go and take care of your "female issues" which is what you always do anyways. "

One of the most uncalled for and classless posts I've probably ever read on here. Just my .02 though.

Why thank you. Peace out!

 

[netjetwife]

Hyper, I agree. I'm surprised the moderators haven't stepped in. They yanked a cowboy off the board because his mouth was bigger than his boots. I don't recall his posts being that crass. My condolences, Maniac. That said, I think most of us who post here regularly realize that a company and/or pilot group isn't judged by the posts of one or two classless characters.

 

[Smellycat]

Lol

I can easily drop the union subject. Let's all just talk about professional compensation for frac pilots.........

I would love to see that happen, but we all know better.

Your hubby got his professional compensation, so take it and go out shopping. Think of all the TIME you will save if you stop trying to recruit the other frax to your sacred union!

No, you don't want to stop talking about the union topic. That is the only reason you are here. If you truly cared about other pilots and their families, you would cease from posting on this board. This board which is for pilots should be more like the Pilot lounge (crewmembers only) than the wednesday night crochet meeting.

There is a spouses and a union forum here if you just cannot leave it to the Professionals.