What do you like about your job?

[WSurf]

With the The Russians decision making skills on this board I don't know if I would recommend her as a Flight Instructor to anyone. But then again if your at Gulfstream then that explains a bunch. wink wink

 

[Flyer1015]

With the The Russians decision making skills on this board I don't know if I would recommend her as a Flight Instructor to anyone. But then again if your at Gulfstream then that explains a bunch. wink wink

LOL!!

 

[The_Russian]

You seem to have a blockage in your head somewhere. Maybe your blind hatred for Gulfstream has led you to believe that no from that airline can possibly be correct concerning any level of aeronautical knowledge. Time to clear that block. Stop running this thread in circles and listen to me a bit, huh?

Exercising commercial privileges, holding a commercial pilot certificate, and flight instruction are all different things. You must be clear on the definitions, regulatory material, and intent that supports these topics to understand them. This is very important, especially if you are a flight instructor.

When exercising the privileges of a commercial certificate, a commercial pilot is limited to how he or she can obtain work. Commercial pilots are not permitted to hold themselves out to the public for compensation or hire. For example, Flyer1015 cannot say "I am a commercial pilot and you can compensate me to fly you somewhere". What they must do, is conduct their commercial privileges under an operator or commercial operator, etc, to obtain compensation.

Now, keeping that in mind with applicability to flight instructors. A flight instructor, utilizing his flight instructor certificate, is permitted to hold himself out to the public offering the service of flight instruction in aircraft for which he or she is rated. This instruction can be for obtaining certificates, pilot proficiency, and currency. This is only permitted because flight instruction is not a commercial operation. Flight instruction is defined separately from that of all other types of flying.

Example:

61.1 Applicability and definitions.

(6) Flight training means that training, other than ground training, received from an authorized instructor in flight in an aircraft.

...................

What's to stop someone from saying, "Does it require a Commercial pilot certificate to do it?" (CFIing does require a commercial pilot certificate) If your answer is yes, then yes, it's a commercial operation."

This is absolutely incorrect. Just because a pilot is operating under a commercial pilot certificate does not make the actual operation a commercial operation. Nor does the required possession of a commercial pilot certificate make the operation a commercial operation.

A flight instructor only operates accompanied by a commercial pilot certificate due to the fact that it is a prerequisite, and they must have the applicable aeronautical experience and training to give instruction those applying for the commercial certificate. The commercial pilot certificate only accompanies the flight instructor certificate to give the flight instructor the appropriate category and class privileges required by that instructor certificate. Also, the flight instructor is limited by the currency requirements of the commercial pilot certificate. Thus, if the commercial certificate is not current, neither is the CFI. Rendering him or her unable to utilize the flight instructor certificate to provide instruction.

That all sounds nice, but can you point to a specific FAR that clearly states that being a paid CFI is not considered commercial flying?

Again, do you have a FAR that states that paid flight instruction is not commercial flying?

Look see.......

§ 61.133 Commercial pilot privileges and limitations.

(a) Privileges —(1) General. A person who holds a commercial pilot certificate may act as pilot in command of an aircraft—

(i) Carrying persons or property for compensation or hire, provided the person is qualified in accordance with this part and with the applicable parts of this chapter that apply to the operation; and

(ii) For compensation or hire, provided the person is qualified in accordance with this part and with the applicable parts of this chapter that apply to the operation.

We have already discussed the flight instruction is defined separately from all other types of flying. To take this a step farther, you will see that privileges of the commercial pilot certificate are carrying persons or property for hire and being compensated for flying under an operation. Flight instruction is not an operation, nor is it a commercial operation. It is simply flight instruction. See definition:

(6) Flight training means that training, other than ground training, received from an authorized instructor in flight in an aircraft.

..........

How will you fight that interpretation that a regional airline might have?

If the operator understand the regulations as they should, they should see that flight instruction is not a commercial operation. And, that is has no bearing on the flight time limitations for 121, 135, etc. The only interpretation that should be applied is the correct one.

 

[The_Russian]

Also, the medical certificate plays a huge part in the scenario.

If the pilot has the intent to exercise his or her commercial privileges, then the pilot certificate must be accompanied by a Second or First Class medical depending on the operation and position to be flown. A pilot may posses a commercial certificate and operate an aircraft regularly under a Third Class medical, but may not exercise commercial privileges.

A flight instructor however, may give flight instruction for compensation with only a Third Class medical or no medical whatsoever. This immediately excludes the flight instructor from operating under an area of commercial privileges. Therefore, it does not matter what the medical certificate status of the flight instructor is because it will not effect the status of the operation, which is flight instruction. The Third Class medical is only required to act as PIC in the aircraft which instruction is being given.

This is just a bonus bit of info that supports the previous post. Remember, if you choose to operate as a flight instructor without a medical you may not act as PIC. This means that at no time during the flight may you touch the controls, even in the interest of safety. This has been previously clarified by the FAA. This is why it is not smart to operate without at least a Third Class Medical.

 

[CA1900]

To add to the mix, a commercial certificate was not always a prerequisite for the CFI. There are many flight instructors out there who do not hold--and never held--commercial certificates. The commercial certificate being a prerequisite is a fairly recent thing (last 20 years, if memory serves).


Russian is on track with the medical issue. A second class is required for commercial operations. A third class is all that's required for flight instruction if the instructor acts as PIC.

If a second-class isn't required, it's not a commercial operation. I instructed for years, for money, with a third class.

 

[Flyer1015]

Russian,

Thanks for your explanation, and for the citing the applicable FARs. It makes much more sense now.

 

[The_Russian]

No problem. Sorry for being so callous. It just happens when I go into GDM.