What do RJET pilots think happens after RJET SLI?

[Popeye0537]

Nice. Answer one childish post with another.

Not childish, it's what they asked for and what we offered. But since you don't fly for RAH, you wouldn't know.

 

[Axel]

Dressed like penguins?

Seriously, what exactly does that mean? I have images of tuxedos which does not seem likely, but less likely is the image of them covered in wet feathers.

Would someone care to clarify the metaphor?

 

[Megalops]

I have an image of them arriving in a clown car, honking each others horns, tripping over their big yellow shoes, if they were dressed as penguins even funnier no??

 

[Axel]

I have an image of them arriving in a clown car, honking each others horns, tripping over their big yellow shoes...,

Heh. Of course you do.

 

[Cardinal]

The previously agreed upon dress code for the SLI proceedings was business casual, IBT showed up in full uniform. They agreed to keep proposals confidential, then showed them to the world. Already the IBT has proven they can't keep their word, thus anything said in a representation campaigin must be promptly discounted.

Further the IBT has risked the interests of their pilot group in this latest stunt with the proposals. The IBT leadership is banking on Arbitrator Eischen remaining impartial, despite their open defiance of his wishes. That sort of brinkmanship is simply poor risk management, nothing to gain from such a course, but lots to lose.

 

[SizzleChest]

From what 2 of my RAH friends said, the arbitrator did NOT tell them to take anything down and did NOT find them in violation of the agreement....

 

[En Mort Main]

hey sizzle don't let facts get in the way of emtions.
If people FEEL it was wrong it should be wrong...If people FEEL like others should not wear their uniforms they should not wear them. If people FEEL the arbitrator should do something, he should. If people FEEL like republic took their jobs (citation lover) it must be true.
Since FEELINGS are what matters in this business.

En Mort Main

 

[CitationLover]

hey sizzle don't let facts get in the way of emtions.
If people FEEL it was wrong it should be wrong...If people FEEL like others should not wear their uniforms they should not wear them. If people FEEL the arbitrator should do something, he should. If people FEEL like republic took their jobs (citation lover) it must be true.
Since FEELINGS are what matters in this business.

En Mort Main

Feel? No feel, reality. Republic 190's/170's are flying our old routes simply cause we wouldn't accept Republic crappy wages.

 

[Axel]

The previously agreed upon dress code for the SLI proceedings was business casual, IBT showed up in full uniform...

Thanks for the answer.

This all is a little bit reminiscent of the "Battle of the Flags" at Panmunjom

 

[AnimalTale]

hey sizzle don't let facts get in the way of emtions.
If people FEEL it was wrong it should be wrong...If people FEEL like others should not wear their uniforms they should not wear them. If people FEEL the arbitrator should do something, he should. If people FEEL like republic took their jobs (citation lover) it must be true.
Since FEELINGS are what matters in this business.

En Mort Main

As a Frontier Pilot, I cant put all the blame on young, motivated and hungry RAH pilots for what happened. If their Union said it was OK to fly Midwest routes for 1/4 of what Midwest pilot's flew them for, then albeit. However, I am truly disgusted with what has happened. Basically a beautiful high paying career (Midwest) with pride and substance has been demolished by 'greedy' mngmt and eager shareholders.

We as a unified bunch (RAH) can never ever replace the history, quality and culture of Midwest. Shame on our Unions (ALPA, FAPA and IBT) for ever allowing mngmt the leeway to dismantle this fine airline (Midwest)via whipsawing and politics.. We all had a hand in this.

One less quality job in our profession. Shame on us.

CYA

 

[BUDDHA145]

I agree with you flipper!!! Management is careless and
and unfurgiven, but even though we (pilots) know this
we just point the finger at each other!!! hey is just easy.

 

[CitationLover]

As a Frontier Pilot, I cant put all the blame on young, motivated and hungry RAH pilots for what happened. If their Union said it was OK to fly Midwest routes for 1/4 of what Midwest pilot's flew them for, then albeit. However, I am truly disgusted with what has happened. Basically a beautiful high paying career (Midwest) with pride and substance has been demolished by 'greedy' mngmt and eager shareholders.

We as a unified bunch (RAH) can never ever replace the history, quality and culture of Midwest. Shame on our Unions (ALPA, FAPA and IBT) for ever allowing mngmt the leeway to dismantle this fine airline (Midwest)via whipsawing and politics.. We all had a hand in this.

One less quality job in our profession. Shame on us.

CYA

Well put, especially the highlighted section. MEH ALPA sold everyone below #62 down the river in their SLI proposal.

 

[En Mort Main]

I sure hope that everyone that is a member of RAH gets over their bruised ego and put their pride aside, or you will end up the next U.S. Airways and be easy game for the other LCC's.
Simple facts are RP/S5/RW/F9/YX/L3 all have to learn how to play nice. They can bitch and moan and do a horible job and become jobless. Or they could put aside their bruised ego and pride and work to make RAH what they want it to be. F9 can fight to bring that wonderful culture to all RAH/ YX had to fight for the pay before now they can lead the fight for higher rates at all RAH. CHQ/S5/RW can welcome all new members into the RAH family and share some knowledge how the company really works.
All in all the pilots of RAH have the future in their hands....they collectively have the power to become successful or burn the place down.
How that decision is made will dictate the future...wisdom and intelligence vs arrogance and pride.
It will be interesting how this all goes down.

En Mort Main

 

[CrownandCoke]

I sure hope that everyone that is a member of RAH gets over their bruised ego and put their pride aside, or you will end up the next U.S. Airways and be easy game for the other LCC's.
Simple facts are RP/S5/RW/F9/YX/L3 all have to learn how to play nice. They can bitch and moan and do a horible job and become jobless. Or they could put aside their bruised ego and pride and work to make RAH what they want it to be. F9 can fight to bring that wonderful culture to all RAH/ YX had to fight for the pay before now they can lead the fight for higher rates at all RAH. CHQ/S5/RW can welcome all new members into the RAH family and share some knowledge how the company really works.
All in all the pilots of RAH have the future in their hands....they collectively have the power to become successful or burn the place down.
How that decision is made will dictate the future...wisdom and intelligence vs arrogance and pride.
It will be interesting how this all goes down.

En Mort Main

it won't happen. Us Lynx guys, the Frontier guys, and the Midwest guys are up for fighting these *kers in management. The Republic/Shuttle/Chq guys don't care, as long as "they have jobs". Because after all, that's all that matters right now. Republic pilots are spineless and will sell all of us Lynx guys down the river so long as they don't have to worry about losing their jobs. :angryfire

 

[En Mort Main]

Arn't Lynx guys paid less than RAH...
Just an observation...Keep fighting the good fight and kill all the jobs.
En Mort Main

 

[Jetjockey]

Well put, especially the highlighted section. MEH ALPA sold everyone below #62 down the river in their SLI proposal.

How so? Any details?

 

[Flying Illini]

I sure hope that everyone that is a member of RAH gets over their bruised ego and put their pride aside, or you will end up the next U.S. Airways and be easy game for the other LCC's.
Simple facts are RP/S5/RW/F9/YX/L3 all have to learn how to play nice. They can bitch and moan and do a horible job and become jobless. Or they could put aside their bruised ego and pride and work to make RAH what they want it to be. F9 can fight to bring that wonderful culture to all RAH/ YX had to fight for the pay before now they can lead the fight for higher rates at all RAH. CHQ/S5/RW can welcome all new members into the RAH family and share some knowledge how the company really works.
All in all the pilots of RAH have the future in their hands....they collectively have the power to become successful or burn the place down.
How that decision is made will dictate the future...wisdom and intelligence vs arrogance and pride.
It will be interesting how this all goes down.

En Mort Main

Who has a bruised ego? Keep in mind you are talking to a minority of the minority of RAH pilots on here (and for that matter, anyone can claim to be an RAH pilot just to fan the flames). I'm certain that the majority of guys just want the SLI completed so we can move on without delay. Get the battle back where it belongs, the pilots vs. mgmt.

As for how the company really works? There's a reason that our Strike Preparation Committee is spooled up. That's the only way we are going to make any progress on a real contract. Mgmt here will flaunt any and every gray area they find in a contract. The fact that we've been walked over on nearly every subject of our "current" contract has just given us a very clear road-map of what we need included in the next one to prevent this type of thing from happening. Ironically, the only part of the contract that really has held water was the Scope section. They exchanged a lot to get that section back in 2003. Now it's time to get the rest of the contract up to speed.

 

[Flying Illini]

it won't happen. Us Lynx guys, the Frontier guys, and the Midwest guys are up for fighting these *kers in management. The Republic/Shuttle/Chq guys don't care, as long as "they have jobs". Because after all, that's all that matters right now. Republic pilots are spineless and will sell all of us Lynx guys down the river so long as they don't have to worry about losing their jobs. :angryfire

Say what?? Read my post above, I hope you've been building a strike fund b/c I'm pretty sure you're going to need it b/c contrary to what you stated, the native RAH pilots DO care and are ready and willing to fight mgmt. If you think about it, the other three pilot groups you stated (Lynx, YX, F9) are just joining our on-going fight mid-battle and I for one, welcome the reinforcements.

I'm not sure how the Republic pilots (and not the CHQ/S5 pilots) will be able to "sell you down the river." Please explain that.

 

[likeitis]

Say what?? Read my post above, I hope you've been building a strike fund b/c I'm pretty sure you're going to need it b/c contrary to what you stated, the native RAH pilots DO care and are ready and willing to fight mgmt. If you think about it, the other three pilot groups you stated (Lynx, YX, F9) are just joining our on-going fight mid-battle and I for one, welcome the reinforcements.

I'm not sure how the Republic pilots (and not the CHQ/S5 pilots) will be able to "sell you down the river." Please explain that.

You're going to need a fund but it sure isn't going to be for a strike. Minimum 4 years to get a contract and no way this cluster of a company can stay in business that long.

 

[Flying Illini]

You're going to need a fund but it sure isn't going to be for a strike. Minimum 4 years to get a contract and no way this cluster of a company can stay in business that long.

I'm also trying to get out of here sooner rather than later. I'm continuously stymied by the lack of 121 TPIC though...

 

[BUDDHA145]

it won't happen. Us Lynx guys, the Frontier guys, and the Midwest guys are up for fighting these *kers in management. The Republic/Shuttle/Chq guys don't care, as long as "they have jobs". Because after all, that's all that matters right now. Republic pilots are spineless and will sell all of us Lynx guys down the river so long as they don't have to worry about losing their jobs. :angryfire

This is so far far from the truth!!!

 

[BUDDHA145]

You're going to need a fund but it sure isn't going to be for a strike. Minimum 4 years to get a contract and no way this cluster of a company can stay in business that long.

Why?? got any insider credible info??

 

[likeitis]

Why?? got any insider credible info??

Inside info isn't needed. It's called following this industry for 40 years. Now that Menke is gone, there isn't anyone with any experience running a airline. Odds are weighted heavily in favor of it's failure.

 

[En Mort Main]

Hasn't CHQ been in business some odd 30years. But i guess they're not an airline?
Can someone define what an airline is...i was under the assumption RP/S5/RW were airlines.
Are they not airlines because they have turned profits every year......
..shrug...

En Mort Main

 

[likeitis]

Hasn't CHQ been in business some odd 30years. But i guess they're not an airline?
Can someone define what an airline is...i was under the assumption RP/S5/RW were airlines.
Are they not airlines because they have turned profits every year......
..shrug...

En Mort Main

They are an outsource lift provider. Up until they merged with YX and F9 they never had to market, buy fuel, route plan, sell tickets or anything an airline would do. Who couldn't make a profit if most of your costs are fixed?

 

[ABC123]

And yet it is the S5 and the CHQ profit paying off the F9 debt. There is a reason we are called the cash cow

 

[CitationLover]

How so? Any details?

Read the proposals on the MEH ALPA site. Look at how FAPA's proposal treats its furloughees then look at the MEH ALPA one and how it differs (ie sells them under the bus). There is a long thread on our ALPA forum about it.

 

[StaySeated]

And yet it is the S5 and the CHQ profit paying off the F9 debt. There is a reason we are called the cash cow

Lets try something new and actually discuss this as gentlemen.

There is an infinite amount of publicly available information that conflicts with your statement above.

It is very important that we all get on the same page here. The fee for departure side of the operation is not "paying off" anything.

I am not sure what you mean by "F9 debt", but I assume that you are referring to operational p&l. F9 CASM was sub 6 cents until Republic started flying dozens of orphaned 37-70 seat aircraft that no longer had a home on a fee for departure CPA. CASM shot above 10 cents the first quarter after the branded ops inherited the small rj's. This is the exact reason that RJET is now rushing to obtain as many 320's and 190's as possible. The number of markets that can support a 50 seat aircraft is vastly smaller than the number of 50 seat rj's currently being serviced by the RJET balance sheet.


Republic HAD a very successful fee for departure operation. They were also one of the first to realize that the business model that afforded their growth and success during the 90's and early 00's was NOT going to be the model for future success.

RJET does not have a "cash cow" today. They actually have a cash problem. The golden goose has definitely laid its last egg, and the branded side needs to get its sh1t together or we are all going to be on the street.

The sooner all of us realize the mess we are in, the better.

 

[Propsync]

Any thought of F9 getting sold back out to the other Airbus operators looking to try to survive against the Boeing operator?

Hey CL- I heard the YX proposal was something else. Can that be attributed to the newer, senior MEC not really caring about those furloughed?

 

[StaySeated]

Any thought of F9 getting sold back out to the other Airbus operators looking to try to survive against the Boeing operator?

Hey CL- I heard the YX proposal was something else. Can that be attributed to the newer, senior MEC not really caring about those furloughed?

RJET could sell the F9 operation for a huge profit (spent $40 million out of pocket, estimated value more than $300 million), but that would imply that they are getting out of the airline business.

The only aircraft that RAH is taking delivery of going forward is 100 seat and larger (190, 195, Cseries if it makes it off the drawing board, and airbus). None of their CPA agreements allow for the operation of aircraft this size.

I would imagine that some form of transaction will take place, but I doubt it will be the sale of the branded operation to another carrier. I think they are going to try and create a niche that doesn't really exist yet today.