What did Mesa agree to??

[CRJ Driver]

Re: Let's Get Real Now!

The pilots at Mesa signed a lousy TA - yes that is a fact. Does that mean that your contract has to be lousy - NO!! Because the Mesa pilots saw this TA as the only way to keep their jobs at Mesa and not farmed out to Freedumb, should you hold this against them - NO!!! Your focus should be more proactive at your own companies to ensure you are not forced into a similar situation. Try presenting to management way to adjust the budget to allow for better pay, ways to save in places - where to spend in other places. As an employee of a company it is your right and responsibility to be proactive like this and help the company. Without solid justification for what you're asking for, how do you expect your management to agree to what you're asking for? Example: Your wife/girlfriend or husband/boyfriend says to you, "We've been together now for four years, I deserve a car. Joe Schmoe and his wife have been together for only two years and he bought her a car, so I think I should have one." What would your respone be? This is exactly how we sound to all of our managements when we are in negotiations.

You mesa guys sound like a bunch of scared little girls,
oh no we cant strike,I'm scared, we have to sign it or
our jobs go to freedumb because thats what J.O. said
and I better do it.

 

[Flash]

What is the new payscale? I have not seen anything in these posts that lists current or new contract pay.

 

[Rottweiller]

1-800-ITS A JOKE

What is the new payscale? I have not seen anything in these posts that lists current or new contract pay.

Pilots will receive hourly flight pay based on their status (position/equipment) and length of service with the Company as follows:

1. 0 - 19 Seat Turboprop Aircraft

DOS + 18 mo DOS + 36 mo DOS + 54 mo
YEAR CAPT FO CAPT FO CAPT FO CAPT FO
1 $28.72 $18.15 $29.29 $18.51 $29.88 $18.88 $30.48 $19.26
2 $30.07 $20.39 $30.67 $20.80 $31.28 $21.22 $31.91 $21.64
3 $31.64 $21.98 $32.27 $22.42 $32.92 $22.87 $33.58 $23.33
4 $33.29 $23.63 $33.96 $24.10 $34.64 $24.58 $35.33 $25.07
5 $34.83 $24.33 $35.53 $24.81 $36.24 $25.30 $36.96 $25.80
6 $36.27 $36.99 $37.73 $38.49
7 $37.35 $38.10 $38.86 $39.64
8 $38.46 $39.23 $40.01 $40.81


2. 20 - 74 Seat Turboprop Aircraft

DOS + 18 mo DOS + 36 mo DOS + 54 mo
YEAR CAPT FO CAPT FO CAPT FO CAPT FO
1 $37.64 $18.15 $38.39 $18.51 $39.16 $18.88 $39.94 $19.26
2 $39.10 $20.39 $39.88 $20.80 $40.68 $21.22 $41.49 $21.64
3 $40.52 $21.98 $41.33 $22.42 $42.16 $22.87 $43.00 $23.33
4 $42.19 $23.63 $43.03 $24.10 $43.89 $24.58 $44.77 $25.07
5 $43.70 $24.33 $44.57 $24.81 $45.46 $25.30 $46.37 $25.80
6 $45.23 $46.13 $47.05 $47.99
7 $46.48 $47.41 $48.36 $49.33
8 $47.78 $48.74 $49.71 $50.70
9 $49.07 $50.05 $51.05 $52.07
10 $50.34 $51.35 $52.38 $53.43
11 $51.72 $52.75 $53.81 $54.89
12 $52.84 $53.90 $54.98 $56.08
13 $53.66 $54.73 $55.82 $56.94
14 $54.49 $55.58 $56.69 $57.83

3. 50 to 59 Seat Jet Aircraft

DOS + 18 mo DOS + 36 mo DOS + 54 mo
YEAR CAPT FO CAPT FO CAPT FO CAPT FO
1 $51.17 $20.47 $52.19 $20.88 $53.24 $21.30 $54.30 $21.72
2 $52.76 $27.42 $53.82 $27.97 $54.89 $28.53 $55.99 $29.10
3 $54.35 $30.59 $55.44 $31.20 $56.55 $31.83 $57.68 $32.46
4 $55.99 $31.90 $57.11 $32.54 $58.25 $33.19 $59.42 $33.85
5 $57.64 $32.85 $58.79 $33.51 $59.97 $34.18 $61.17 $34.86
6 $59.32 $33.62 $60.51 $34.29 $61.72 $34.98 $62.95 $35.68
7 $60.94 $34.07 $62.16 $34.75 $63.40 $35.45 $64.67 $36.16
8 $62.90 $34.55 $64.16 $35.24 $65.44 $35.95 $66.75 $36.66
9 $64.83 $35.04 $66.13 $35.74 $67.45 $36.45 $68.80 $37.18
10 $66.82 $68.16 $69.52 $70.91
11 $68.75 $70.13 $71.53 $72.96
12 $70.85 $72.27 $73.71 $75.19
13 $72.95 $74.41 $75.90 $77.42
14 $75.21 $76.71 $78.25 $79.81
15 $76.26 $77.79 $79.34 $80.93

4. 60 – 76 Seat Jet Aircraft

Effective DOS:
DOS + 18 mo DOS + 36 mo DOS +
54 mo
YEAR CAPT FO CAPT FO CAPT FO CAPT FO
1 $53.86 $20.47 $54.94 $20.88 $56.04 $21.30 $57.16 $21.72
2 $55.50 $27.42 $56.61 $27.97 $57.74 $28.53 $58.89 $29.10
3 $57.17 $30.59 $58.31 $31.20 $59.48 $31.83 $60.67 $32.46
4 $58.91 $31.90 $60.09 $32.54 $61.29 $33.19 $62.52 $33.85
5 $60.68 $32.85 $61.89 $33.51 $63.13 $34.18 $64.39 $34.86
6 $62.50 $33.62 $63.75 $34.29 $65.03 $34.98 $66.33 $35.68
7 $64.37 $34.07 $65.65 $34.75 $66.97 $35.45 $68.30 $36.16
8 $66.30 $34.55 $67.62 $35.24 $68.97 $35.95 $70.35 $36.66
9 $68.29 $35.04 $69.65 $35.74 $71.04 $36.45 $72.46 $37.18
10 $70.34 $71.74 $73.18 $74.64
11 $72.45 $73.89 $75.37 $76.88
12 $74.63 $76.12 $77.64 $79.19
13 $76.86 $78.39 $79.96 $81.56
14 $79.17 $80.75 $82.36 $84.01
15 $81.55 $83.18 $84.84 $86.54
16 $82.85 $84.50 $86.19 $87.92
17 $84.18 $85.86 $87.58 $89.33
18 $85.52 $87.23 $88.97 $90.75
19 $86.89 $88.62 $90.40 $92.20
20 $88.36 $90.12 $91.92 $93.76


5. > 76 Seats < = 86k lbs Jet Aircraft

Effective DOS:
DOS + 18 mo DOS + 36 mo DOS +
54 mo
YEAR CAPT FO CAPT FO CAPT FO CAPT FO
1 $57.90 $20.47 $59.06 $20.88 $60.24 $21.30 $61.44 $21.72
2 $59.67 $27.42 $60.86 $27.97 $62.08 $28.53 $63.32 $29.10
3 $61.48 $30.59 $62.71 $31.20 $63.96 $31.83 $65.24 $32.46
4 $63.33 $31.90 $64.60 $32.54 $65.89 $33.19 $67.21 $33.85
5 $65.25 $32.85 $66.56 $33.51 $67.89 $34.18 $69.25 $34.86
6 $67.19 $33.62 $68.53 $34.29 $69.90 $34.98 $71.30 $35.68
7 $68.85 $34.07 $70.23 $34.75 $71.63 $35.45 $73.06 $36.16
8 $70.95 $34.55 $72.37 $35.24 $73.82 $35.95 $75.30 $36.66
9 $73.13 $35.04 $74.59 $35.74 $76.08 $36.45 $77.60 $37.18
10 $75.33 $76.84 $78.38 $79.95
11 $77.58 $79.13 $80.71 $82.32
12 $79.93 $81.53 $83.16 $84.82
13 $82.33 $83.98 $85.66 $87.37
14 $84.82 $86.52 $88.25 $90.02
15 $86.94 $88.68 $90.45 $92.26
16 $89.11 $90.89 $92.71 $94.56
17 $91.34 $93.17 $95.03 $96.93
18 $93.62 $95.49 $97.40 $99.35
19 $95.96 $97.88 $99.84 $101.84
20 $98.36 $100.33 $102.34 $104.39

 

[bobbysamd]

Jury duty

This may seem like a small point, but the TA requires use of vacation or sick time for jury duty. This appears to be illegal. The law forbids employers from penalizing employees for jury duty. In my 2¢ opinion, docking sick time or vacation time for jury duty is a penality.

Ironically, Mesa is located in Phoenix, Arizona. Arizona law is clear about not penalizing employees for jury duty:

An employer shall not refuse to permit an employee to take a leave of absence from employment for the purpose of serving as a juror. No employer may dismiss or in any way penalize any employee because he serves as a grand or trial juror, provided, however, that an employer shall not be required to compensate an employee when the employee is absent from his employment because of his jury service. Any absences from employment shall not affect vacation rights which employees otherwise have. Sec. 21-236, Ariz. Rev. Stat. (emphasis added)

Other states have similar laws. Maybe the loophole is that sick time would be used for jury duty. If that's the case, that is just bad policy.

 

[SELFloadingCRGO]

The way I read it, I think it means you are "allowed" to use your vacation or sick time to cover time lost due to jury duty. Most of us know that the $10/day while serving barely covers lunch at Taco Bell.

On a side note, Broncos in '03-'04? I miss John and Terrell!

 

[skybuda]

DruDown

Nice post, you are the first in two day to think before laying eveything that has gone wrong in the last two years on Mesa. Many are saying that there were no gains, yes it look as if there were no gains, but that is compared to other contracts. When looked at Mesa first contract, and yes this is only the second contract in Mesa's history, there are some gains. There could have been nice pay raised for the jet guys at mesa but that would have came form a B scale for all the prop guys, and yes that is what Mgmt wanted a B scale for the prop guys, so they had to go get the best for they whole group. What else did they get: all CCAir guys are back to work after being off for a year, in this day and age bring them back was also not a easy thing. Evey one out there rips Mesa on the 70 hour bid and 8/10 days off but remember that they are on a 13 bid a year system not 12 so those also have to be adjusted 75.83 per bid 104 day off on resurve no 96 or a average of 8.6 and 130 off for a line holder not 120 or 10.8. Still not that good by any mesure but better than they look on the outside. Pay rates would also have to be look at the same way. If company B has a 75 hour bid then you would have to readjust Mesa's 50,60,70,80 pay rate to 50.50,60.60,70.70,80.80. Yes I know that there are no trip and duty rigs, ect, but eveyone out there is screaming up and down on the payrates and days off. ASA, ACO, CMR, ARW, and some of EGL rate are higher be a few bucks, but the rest are within a dime or two.

I know this contract SUCK from front to back, that is why I am one of the 160+ that voted it down, but I had to try to find a dim of light some where.

 

[CitationLover]

bobbysamd,

i would imagine mesa (i don't know though) is incorporated in Delaware due to corporate tax laws being favorable there.

would the fact that this is collectively bargained create any loopholes within the laws? (kinda like the loophole congress enjoys - not having to follow its own laws) i know that with pensions, collective bargaining supersedes nondiscrimination laws, etc.

 

[bobbysamd]

Broncos

On a side note, Broncos in '03-'04? I miss John and Terrell!

With all due respect to Mr. Beurlein, Jake is better than what they've had at quarterback, but he'll really need to cut his turnovers to make a difference. They also need to tighten up the O-line. In all fairness, after Nalen went out the line had something like three new starters and one position change.

Defense? I dunno yet about the D-line and secondary. Gardener will help but they need a real RDE - Chike Okeafor would fill the bill nicely if they sign him from the 49ers. If Deltha would play up to his potential the pass defense would be better.

They might have a chance if all pieces fall in place. The Raiders won't be as good, especially after Chuckie figured out their passing attack. Other teams will emulate his game plan. San Diego and the Chiefs might be better.

I still think the jury duty thing at Mesa is unlawful.

 

[Publishers]

stance

Those were some of the best posts that I have seen here.

What gets me is that the people who whine and bitch about holding the bar and all this stuff are usually not involved in the situation.

Times have changed. Everyone is going to be effected. These are businesses and they only remain in business to make money for the owners be it individuals or corporate.

The bar is coming down--- way down. Eventually it will go back up. Get tough stances are going to create more Eastern's than SWA's.

 

[DruDown]

Re: Re: Let's Get Real Now!

You mesa guys sound like a bunch of scared little girls,
oh no we cant strike,I'm scared, we have to sign it or
our jobs go to freedumb because thats what J.O. said
and I better do it.

Regardless of what the Mesa guys "sound like," the fact is the TA has been ratified by the pilot group at Mesa - the focus should now be to prevent similar happenings at other companies. If we want to be unified, we should be working with CHQ and helping them not get into the same situation, and the group at Mesaba. Those guys are in a similar situation with "alter-ego" crap and shifting assets.

Let's look at where the Mesa group could have made some changes to negotiate (not fight, not strike, not whine, not point fingers, but professionally, in an adult and mature manner negotiate) for a better deal. Instead of pointing fingers, let's use this as a learning tool.

All too often we pilots get so wound up over what the other group did that we loose sight of what we are trying to do at our own company - let's NOT let that happen this time. If your group signs a substandard contract, it's not Mesa's fault - it's your own pilot group's fault. The last time I checked no other MEC's are sitting at the table with you, jsut your own. Let's not point the finger at ALPA National, point it at your own MEC - we all elect our own MEC, and we need to hold those members accountable, not another airline and not Nationals.

And, if the TA did not pass, what would have stopped JO from transferring all the assets to Freedumb? And if he did, from what would the Mesa pilots be striking from - there would be no more company and no legal precedent to return the assets to the current group. Yes, the Mesa guys would have stood up to JO, but he still would have won and succeeded in putting over a thousand pilots out of work - that doesn't sound like a success for ALPA or the pilot group!