What a NO vote means.

[jea]

Yes, because you are one incident, medical, checkride, cheif pilot away from having your career done and over with.

If anything, think of ALPA as an insurance policy. Hope you never have to use it but glad its their just in case. Peace of mind...

incident.. medical... yeah that stuff happens, a good friend of mine just got word that hes diabetic, its sad. Hard to deal with, however, chief pilot... checkrides... SkyWest is not out to get you! I know DD was screwed over by a chief.. That chief needed to be put in check from what I know.. youve got me on that one. apla is an insurance policy, but they are NOT what many pilots at SkyWest think they are.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

I know the industry... it doesnt change the fact that you are spineless... chicken $hit... validate yourself!!! be a man drop a nut!!!!!

Eat $hit,
You will know who I am after I finish with you.
PBR
P.S. Check your phone messages for a call from Joan P.

 

[CFIT]

PBR
Well, go ahead threaten me while your at it.

 

[jea]

Eat $hit,
You will know who I am after I finish with you.
PBR
P.S. Check your phone messages for a call from Joan P.

Still not man enough to stand behind all of his flightinfo remarks....

 

[jea]

phone messages...
Jake, friend from SkyW.
SDL FSDO...
My Son,
Heather from Benefits,
Timo, PVT pilot applicant,
My Daughter,
My Cousin,
My Brother,
2 from a Checkairman....
SLC FSDO...
None from you yet..
I will sleep well tonight...

 

[auspac]

what is the current feeling at SKYW about ALPA... Will it pass ??

Tough call. I think it will be fairly close but will not pass. I believe (my opinion - no proof) that the ALPA supporters make up a very vocal minority on these boards and on our SAPA boards. I have found most of the members of the OC to be very professional, unfortunately some of the most ardent ALPA supporters do more harm to their cause than good (I believe there is evidence enough of that in this thread.) Also we have a fairly apathetic pilot group. When we have elections for SAPA positions the voter turn out is usually pathetic. On our SAPA forums there are 1382 members out of 2700 pilots. It makes me wonder if the other 1300+ pilots just don't care about SAPA, or just don't care.

I have brought up the ALPA issue with most of the F.Os I have flown with and have found more that say they wont vote than will. I have flown with FOs that came to SkyWest from Mesa, Pinnacle, Air Wisconsin, ACA, ASA, Express Jet and Mesaba. Most of them had some positive things to say about ALPA but all of them said things were better at SkyWest. Some of them want ALPA but more of them do not. Of course this is a very small sample.

Personally, I haven't voted yet and am leaning towards not voting. It is a big decision for me because I may well be a SkyWest lifer. I have been treated fairly by management in the 8 years that I have been here. Things could obviously be better, and just like the next guy I want the most amount of pay for the least amount of work, but so far I haven't been convinced that ALPA will improve things. I haven't seen much evidence of it at other regionals. We have a couple more ALPA informational sessions and I want to attend at least one more before the vote is over.

 

[Nevets]

incident.. medical... yeah that stuff happens, a good friend of mine just got word that hes diabetic, its sad. Hard to deal with, however, chief pilot... checkrides... SkyWest is not out to get you! I know DD was screwed over by a chief.. That chief needed to be put in check from what I know.. youve got me on that one. apla is an insurance policy, but they are NOT what many pilots at SkyWest think they are.

Exactly, stuff happens. Like a car accident and your home burning down. But I bet you have insurance for those things. Who's to say there wont be another chief pilot down the road that needs to be put in check? Checkrides or any training event, at an ALPA carrier you have a training review baord after the first failure and sometimes after the second failure. And the pilot is able to grieve the termination decision. Skywest does NOT have that. I know because I have a friend who was terminated after IOE without as much as a courtesy face to face meeting to explain why. He was just told, over the phone, that they were terminating his training.

I'm not saying that Skywest or anybody is out to get you. I'm saying that stuff happens. You never know when its going to happen to you.

If people think that ALPA is a get out of jail free card, then yes, you are right, ALPA is NOT that.

 

[jea]

Exactly, stuff happens. Like a car accident and your home burning down. But I bet you have insurance for those things. Who's to say there wont be another chief pilot down the road that needs to be put in check? Checkrides or any training event, at an ALPA carrier you have a training review baord after the first failure and sometimes after the second failure. And the pilot is able to grieve the termination decision. Skywest does NOT have that. I know because I have a friend who was terminated after IOE without as much as a courtesy face to face meeting to explain why. He was just told, over the phone, that they were terminating his training.

I'm not saying that Skywest or anybody is out to get you. I'm saying that stuff happens. You never know when its going to happen to you.

If people think that ALPA is a get out of jail free card, then yes, you are right, ALPA is NOT that.

Right on... Ill mention this... I was a street hire DHC8 ca at mesa years ago... I wanted as well as a few others in my class to be fos for at least a month. the company said no we need captains.. alpa said we can do nothing to help you.. you need to be here 1 year.. I busted my ride- yeah that sucked.. called alpa again.. sorry there is nothing we can do. the company offered more training and another ride.. all in all i resigned for a few reasons- going through a divorce, and me thinking denver pic 121 with no prior 121 was a bad idea.
at the time it was my dream job! I still love the dash its a great airplane! but things didnt work out thank goodness... my point is- alpa (granted it was mesa) didnt do a thing....

 

[Nevets]

Tough call. I think it will be fairly close but will not pass. I believe (my opinion - no proof) that the ALPA supporters make up a very vocal minority on these boards and on our SAPA boards. I have found most of the members of the OC to be very professional, unfortunately some of the most ardent ALPA supporters do more harm to their cause than good (I believe there is evidence enough of that in this thread.) Also we have a fairly apathetic pilot group. When we have elections for SAPA positions the voter turn out is usually pathetic. On our SAPA forums there are 1382 members out of 2700 pilots. It makes me wonder if the other 1300+ pilots just don't care about SAPA, or just don't care.

I have brought up the ALPA issue with most of the F.Os I have flown with and have found more that say they wont vote than will. I have flown with FOs that came to SkyWest from Mesa, Pinnacle, Air Wisconsin, ACA, ASA, Express Jet and Mesaba. Most of them had some positive things to say about ALPA but all of them said things were better at SkyWest. Some of them want ALPA but more of them do not. Of course this is a very small sample.

Personally, I haven't voted yet and am leaning towards not voting. It is a big decision for me because I may well be a SkyWest lifer. I have been treated fairly by management in the 8 years that I have been here. Things could obviously be better, and just like the next guy I want the most amount of pay for the least amount of work, but so far I haven't been convinced that ALPA will improve things. I haven't seen much evidence of it at other regionals. We have a couple more ALPA informational sessions and I want to attend at least one more before the vote is over.

To be honest, one of the biggest problems for pilots in other airlines that are represented by ALPA is apathy. I think its just a trait of pilots in general. I don't know if its because they just don't care, are too lazy to care, are too new to know any better (SJS), or other more reasonable reasons. I too think it will be very close but I'm confident that it will be a victory for Skywest pilots.

Many pilots that have been at other ALPA carriers or look at some of those carriers will incorrectly lay blame on ALPA for the failings of their respective management. ALPA cannot force a management to have a sound business plan or tell management how to conduct its business. That includes not being able to make management not be hostile to its pilots with blatant contract violations. In those instances, all ALPA can do is defend its members during grievances and arbitrations. For example, it wasn't ALPA's fault that Indy Air went out of business. And its not ALPA's fault that Jonathon Ornstein violates the contract day and night. But both of those circumstances bring down the morale and pilots being pilots look for someone to blame.

As for you, you and many others have been treated fairly by your management. But many others haven't. One of your pilots had to go to court to get his job back recently and there are many other instances that I've personally heard and I'm sure you have heard first hand also. And just think of the countless others who just took it. Also, you never know when JA is going to call it quits. What if the next Ornstein takes over? If you vote ALPA in, you will start negotiating a contract. If that means that you only put what you have know in a legally binding enforceable contract, you will be much better off without losing anything. But of course ALPA is much more than just a contract as I'm sure you have heard.

I'm pleased to hear you are open minded. Many of the pilots I have talked to have been open minded as well. I'm going to be in LAX tomorrow (10/30) and on Nov 1st. I'll be glad to answer any of your questions or concerns over a cup of coffee.

Fly safe and hope to see you there.

 

[Nevets]

Right on... Ill mention this... I was a street hire DHC8 ca at mesa years ago... I wanted as well as a few others in my class to be fos for at least a month. the company said no we need captains.. alpa said we can do nothing to help you.. you need to be here 1 year.. I busted my ride- yeah that sucked.. called alpa again.. sorry there is nothing we can do. the company offered more training and another ride.. all in all i resigned for a few reasons- going through a divorce, and me thinking denver pic 121 with no prior 121 was a bad idea.
at the time it was my dream job! I still love the dash its a great airplane! but things didnt work out thank goodness... my point is- alpa (granted it was mesa) didnt do a thing....

Ahh, I see. I'm sorry to hear about that. Although it sounds like its worked out for you so far. I'm glad to hear that.

Yeah, one thing about new hires/probationary pilots and ALPA is that although you benefit from all the provisions of the contract, the only protection you do NOT get is the ability to arbitrate. Seems like that was your case. I don't know but I'm sure those cases are far and few between.