What a NO vote means.

[CFIT]

Checkrides or any training event, at an ALPA carrier you have a training review baord after the first failure and sometimes after the second failure. And the pilot is able to grieve the termination decision. Skywest does NOT have that. I know because I have a friend who was terminated after IOE without as much as a courtesy face to face meeting to explain why. He was just told, over the phone, that they were terminating his training.

Nevets, An ALPA carrier is NOT gauranteed a training review or a check ride review or any review for any reason, it is something that has to be negotiated during the contract negotiations. It is paid for with negotiating capital and the group has to determine what it is willing to give up, pay, scheduling, something, nothing is free.

As far as your friend being terminated during training (I know you wont believe me) it is the absolute last option utilized. If you think about it the company has already invested alot of expense, time and resources to the trainee. It is a good program, certainly not perfect, but has a high demand for skill and application. It certainly isn't for everyone, nor should it be.

It is a safety failure if ALPA demands everyone to the cockpit.

 

[Bus-Driver]

PBRstreetgang,
I know jea very well, have worked with him at multiple jobs. I know that, whatever you say, he is going to do just fine in the industry. I think it is pretty pathetic that you have to threaten people based on their opinions. perhaps it's you that should leave and do something else, you obviously aren't happy and are too scared to even post who you are. If you are unhappy with SKW the way they are, move on. I hear Mesa is hiring.
Bus-Driver

 

[auspac]

Nevjets,
If more ALPA supporters were like you I think the drive would have a better chance. You bring up valid points without insulting others. Unfortunately I wont be at LAX this week but will try to talk to someone in DEN or ORD.

 

[Nevets]

Nevets, An ALPA carrier is NOT gauranteed a training review or a check ride review or any review for any reason, it is something that has to be negotiated during the contract negotiations. It is paid for with negotiating capital and the group has to determine what it is willing to give up, pay, scheduling, something, nothing is free.

As far as your friend being terminated during training (I know you wont believe me) it is the absolute last option utilized. If you think about it the company has already invested alot of expense, time and resources to the trainee. It is a good program, certainly not perfect, but has a high demand for skill and application. It certainly isn't for everyone, nor should it be.

It is a safety failure if ALPA demands everyone to the cockpit.

Actually, when you have a contract, you have a procedure for resolution of disputes. Even for terminations.

I know that terminations during training is a last resort. Its the same at XJT (whether the company likes it or not). I understand that its a huge expense to train someone and not be able to use that asset. Which is why it baffled me that someone gets terminated without as much as an explanation after completing their required number of hours for IOE. Mind you that this guy never had to retrain on any FTD or SIM. I mean, not even a, hey is everything okay on the home front, type of conversation. As a matter of fact, they didn't have the courtesy to call him back. He had to initiate the call and got the run around. I'm almost sure that Skywest was just thinking, "we fixed the glitch" with this guy.

By the way, he has successfully completed his 121 training at another repeatable carier with flying colors. Needless to say that if Skywest would have had a legally binding contract, I doubt this would have happened like that. Apparently he had a high enough demand for skill and application for his new carrier.

 

[Nevets]

Nevjets,
If more ALPA supporters were like you I think the drive would have a better chance. You bring up valid points without insulting others. Unfortunately I wont be at LAX this week but will try to talk to someone in DEN or ORD.

I know that the few that I've met on the Organizing Committee are all pleasant and intelligent. I do sometimes get a little heated especially on this on line forums when I'm talking about something that matters to me. So hopefully that doesn't come out the wrong way here.

Anyways, you can email me if you have any other questions.

 

[SkyNation]

Nevets,

what auspac said.

also, you only have your buddy's side of the story. of course there are always two sides, and the company story I'm sure would add to the discussion. I mean, why fire a guy you've spent all that money to train? spite? I'm sure there is more to it, and something compelled them to do it. we need FOs badly, and they're not going to boot someone for nothing.

 

[yellowfever]

Right on... Ill mention this... I was a street hire DHC8 ca at mesa years ago... I wanted as well as a few others in my class to be fos for at least a month. the company said no we need captains.. alpa said we can do nothing to help you.. you need to be here 1 year.. I busted my ride- yeah that sucked.. called alpa again.. sorry there is nothing we can do. the company offered more training and another ride.. all in all i resigned for a few reasons- going through a divorce, and me thinking denver pic 121 with no prior 121 was a bad idea.
at the time it was my dream job! I still love the dash its a great airplane! but things didnt work out thank goodness... my point is- alpa (granted it was mesa) didnt do a thing....

I knew several guys in the training department back in the 90's. One was the head of their EMB120 program. Those guys would actually brag about their failure rate...I think that is very sad. Do you blame ALPA for this?

 

[jea]

I knew several guys in the training department back in the 90's. One was the head of their EMB120 program. Those guys would actually brag about their failure rate...I think that is very sad. Do you blame ALPA for this?

I certainly dont blame alpa for it.. i hope it hasnt come across that way... what im saying is alpa didnt do anything there, what could they do here? When I was in groundschool here, a guy in class was having a hard time, they worked and worked with him to get him through, there was 2 others that were just falling apart in the sim... Skywest took the time, spent the money to get these guys through... SkyWest is far superior in this area than any other ive heard of.... without alpa.. I just hope that people are getting all the facts....

 

[samballs]

what has the result of these discussions been in terms of your pay vs. your counterparts at ASA, Comair, AWAC, etc? I'd bet you and I make more in the end.



are you suggesting that we can 'strong arm' our management with ALPA on board?

My pay cut in BANKRUPTCY brought me to your level. Think about it I had to take a paycut to make what you make. If we didn't have ALPA it would have been worse, and if we didn't have FLT ATTS it would have been even worse. IF we didn't have JC Lawson on our MEC it would have been even better, unfortunately hes' a puss and people at OH seem to follow him. But that is the pilots decision who leads us.

 

[samballs]

27242... whats yours? chicken $hit...

Do you always say Chicken sh!t

 

[jea]

Do you always say Chicken sh!t

ha ha ha ha only because it makes pbr mad.. though if you think about it.. its really stinky and sticky like pbr

 

[yellowfever]

I certainly dont blame alpa for it.. i hope it hasnt come across that way... what im saying is alpa didnt do anything there, what could they do here? When I was in groundschool here, a guy in class was having a hard time, they worked and worked with him to get him through, there was 2 others that were just falling apart in the sim... Skywest took the time, spent the money to get these guys through... SkyWest is far superior in this area than any other ive heard of.... without alpa.. I just hope that people are getting all the facts....

I know a guy at MESA who failed his upgrade in the 8 and is still working there. I also know the check airman that failed him.
If you fail an upgrade at Skywest you are out of a job (there are several who have been fired). I'm not sure what facts you are talking about?

 

[jea]

I know a guy at MESA who failed his upgrade in the 8 and is still working there. I also know the check airman that failed him.
If you fail an upgrade at Skywest you are out of a job (there are several who have been fired). I'm not sure what facts you are talking about?

its multiple failures.... you have a few chances during upgrade.

 

[Tarzan]

CFIT=jea=SkyNation= D-O-U-C-H-E-B-A-G

I get the impression they are one and the same.

 

[skypine69]

jea,

it sounds like you were on probation at mesa, yes?
I have been at skywest for 14 years. it is time for a union. it is a good place to work, but if this drive fails, that will go away. trust me, please, you still have time to vote.

 

[yellowfever]

its multiple failures.... you have a few chances during upgrade.

How long have you been at Skywest?

 

[jea]

less than 2 years but many friends who i have worked with over 10 years ago are/have been here for 9 years and more... granted i havent been here that long. but i have kept up on what was going on..

 

[EBE]

its multiple failures.... you have a few chances during upgrade.

What? Is that based on your personal experience or on what someone told you?

 

[Nevets]

Nevets,

what auspac said.

also, you only have your buddy's side of the story. of course there are always two sides, and the company story I'm sure would add to the discussion. I mean, why fire a guy you've spent all that money to train? spite? I'm sure there is more to it, and something compelled them to do it. we need FOs badly, and they're not going to boot someone for nothing.

That's the point. He couldn't even get the courtesy of an explanation. From what my friend told me, I have my suspicions on the probably cause but I'm not going to say it because I don't have anything to back it up.

He passed another 121 training program with flying colors shortly there after so take it for what its worth.

My real point is that if there was a contract, the company would be unable to just NOT call the guy and NOT give him an explanation of the termination without training records being presented at a hearing.

 

[Nevets]

its multiple failures.... you have a few chances during upgrade.

There is no up or out policy at ALPA carriers even with multiple failures.