What A Freaking Shock!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AA717driver]

I was chumming for suckers and you bit. :laugh:

LMAO! TC

 

[capt. megadeth]

You don't know that.



Bye Bye--General Lee

Ok, let's make a bet. If they don't ask for any more, I will give you my next paycheck. If they ask for more, you give me your next paycheck. Whaddya think?

 

[AceCrackshot]

GL-

Considering you conceded the fact that DALPA allowed for the gutting of pilot labor by allowing RJs in the first place, and the fact that DALPA helped to throw "brother" pilot groups under the bus during and immediately after deregulation, (read up on Carl Icahn and Mother D's bidding war for PanAm, and its effect on the pilots.)

I'll go ahead and answer your response to DALPA allowing contract pilots. Its called PRECEDENT. Its the same attitude demonstrated throughout the history of DALPA. If its good for us, then why are you whinging? I understand the situation. I have an uncle who is one of the contract guys. And I know it was a matter of getting the poor, distressed senior guys a little extra for the second wife and her kids.

In the meantime, when my future employer gets in a training lurch, I'm sure my management will forget the little precedent your senior made, and negotiate with us in good faith. If you can't see that the threat of shutdown was the only leverage you had pre bankruptcy, I'm probably not the guy you can convince you.

And read up on the history of DALPA from the outside. We'll be cleaning their mess for years. The COBRA payments, General, are just piddling blood money.

 

[IB6 UB9]

"Thank gawd"

Thank gawd Dalpa brought the pay scale bar up higher than anyone else EVER. Yeah, Dalpa has only done bad things for this industry.......RIIIIIIGHT.

Let me get this straight, in your current state you are actually gloating about raising the bar? And blaming us two posts later for lowering it? We have 80 airlplanes and somewhere between 1-2% of the domestic traffic in this country. You are bankrupt, voting for paycuts, have pilots on furlough and have pilots greenslipping shamelessly. "Thank gawd" for you, for you and your fellow employees making this such a better industry for we who bring it down. "Thank gawd" we are so privledged to share the sky for you. I will definitely in the future request a lower altitude so you can pass over me without a vector. "Thank gawd" you are closing in on 6000 posts of sensible and intelligent reason so you can educate my kind, the ones that strive so hard to bring this industry down for the likes of you. I "Thank gawd" General, that I have a vision of you, you proud soldier of aviation, hell bent on making this a better place for me to go to work.

 

[General Lee]

Let me get this straight, in your current state you are actually gloating about raising the bar? And blaming us two posts later for lowering it? We have 80 airlplanes and somewhere between 1-2% of the domestic traffic in this country. You are bankrupt, voting for paycuts, have pilots on furlough and have pilots greenslipping shamelessly. "Thank gawd" for you, for you and your fellow employees making this such a better industry for we who bring it down. "Thank gawd" we are so privledged to share the sky for you. I will definitely in the future request a lower altitude so you can pass over me without a vector. "Thank gawd" you are closing in on 6000 posts of sensible and intelligent reason so you can educate my kind, the ones that strive so hard to bring this industry down for the likes of you. I "Thank gawd" General, that I have a vision of you, you proud soldier of aviation, hell bent on making this a better place for me to go to work.

Here you go again, giving low blows. We DID raise the bar to the highest it has EVER been, and then we became a target. If you think our pay alone sunk us, try to remember the part (even the judge brought this up) about Delta buying $2 billion in stock just prior to 9-11, and then it vaporizing. (I was the one who approved that one......) What about selling the fuel hedges? I approved that one too.

And, I didn't slam you guys, rather your management. They are the ones who approved your 100 seat rates. Since you do not have a union or a voice, it really couldn't be stopped by you. That rate is now the benchmark for every new 100 seat rate, and any rate for planes smaller than 100 seats. Managements all around the US jumped up and down and high fived each other when they saw those rates. That wasn't your fault, though.

So, our group really did set the bar to the highest it has ever been, and now we are falling. If you want to make fun of us some more, go ahead chief.


You don't like the "Thank Gawd" saying? Hmmmm. Oh well.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

GL-

Considering you conceded the fact that DALPA allowed for the gutting of pilot labor by allowing RJs in the first place, and the fact that DALPA helped to throw "brother" pilot groups under the bus during and immediately after deregulation, (read up on Carl Icahn and Mother D's bidding war for PanAm, and its effect on the pilots.)

I'll go ahead and answer your response to DALPA allowing contract pilots. Its called PRECEDENT. Its the same attitude demonstrated throughout the history of DALPA. If its good for us, then why are you whinging? I understand the situation. I have an uncle who is one of the contract guys. And I know it was a matter of getting the poor, distressed senior guys a little extra for the second wife and her kids.

In the meantime, when my future employer gets in a training lurch, I'm sure my management will forget the little precedent your senior made, and negotiate with us in good faith. If you can't see that the threat of shutdown was the only leverage you had pre bankruptcy, I'm probably not the guy you can convince you.

And read up on the history of DALPA from the outside. We'll be cleaning their mess for years. The COBRA payments, General, are just piddling blood money.

General,

I know Delta better than you think and I see much in the post above that is correct.

Don't confuse the senior DALPA guys quest for millionaire status with "raising the bar". It's called cashing in. I don't blame them for it since it seems to be the American way. But facts are facts. Management and pilots took their cash and left a shell of a company. You have been left to pick up the pieces. "Good Luck, we are all counting on you"


Hopefully it will not happen at SWA.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

It's an interview board, so here is the lesson.

Look at the senior dudes at the company you apply to or currently work for. What is their agenda? What will their retirement or negotiation position for retirement benefits do to the company the next 5-10 years? Relative to competitors, of course.

Always look at the company like an investor, not like a contractor.

Yeah, I know, it is too hard to figure out and there are too many variables. Make a guess and go with your estimate if you feel it's important not to be changing jobs at age 45+.

 

[General Lee]

General,

I know Delta better than you think and I see much in the post above that is correct.

Don't confuse the senior DALPA guys quest for millionare status with "raising the bar". It's called cashing in. I don't blame them for it since it seems to be the American way. But facts are facts. Management and pilots took their cash and left a shell of a company. You have been left to pick up the pieces. "Good Luck, we are all counting on you"


Hopefully it will not happen at SWA.

Sure, some senior guys left with a boat load of money, just like management. Most of that pension money was already in a seperate fund, not coming directly from the Delta coffers. That didn't cause the large losses, and most of those guys had worked for Delta for more than 20 years, and got half of their "promised" pension. Leo Mullin worked for 3-4 years and got $16 million.

Yes, I am left to pick up the pieces. That is the way it goes, but not all of that was done by Dalpa. Sure, there have been mistakes made, but most by management and their decisions. Even the judge agrees with that. What do you think Dalpa should have done here? Gone for it? Had we voted it down there would surely have been an 1113 process (since we failed to negotiate a deal) and then we would have either struck and liquidated the place, or kept flying with no contract and any pay cut the company wanted. The latter also would have thrown out our fragmentation and merger protection, and we would have left us sitting ducks. Instead, we got less of a pay cut, and time to negotiate with the judge watching, and we got the company to have to give us credit for a possible and likely pension dump, which will help us bridge the gap for the full $325 million in savings a year. It was just "prudent." Will we go for another round of cuts? Doubtful, since this one barely passed. We shall see.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[AA717driver]

Sorry, GL, I disagree. The Delta pilot group will continue to go for pay cuts because there is no alternative. A captain can vote yes or take a cut from $100k/yr. to $26k at "the job of a lifetime" at UPS.

History confirms this. You are along for the ride, unfortunately.TC

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I wish I had a crystal ball, but here is what I see without one.

I see guaranteed feed from ASA, Comair and mainline for some profitable international routes. That may save the day. Some good Hub to Hub flying too. But I'm really hoping the employees don't just fall apart. I know some are bailing but many are staying. Those coming to SWA are tired of the bad scene at Delta.

Everything is cyclic. With furloughes and BK things will look gloomy as management gets more and more from you. But the reason is not just to save cash.

When Delta is ready to hire new employees again they want to look like the good guys and offer steady improvements in pay and benefits. Oddly, the cuts now will set a new "benchmark" that will see steady improvements and make new employees "happy". So the management theory goes.

I have no opinion on your passing of the TA. This lowering of the bar stuff is all good theory, but when it is your family on the line, I vote to feed and clothe the kids.

 

[IB6 UB9]

General,

I'm not giving you low blows...I am, however, sarcastically replying to your "Thank gawd we raised the bar" attitude. WTF did that accomplish? We can argue this until we are old, but it certainly didn't help your financial situation. You say we don't have a union or a voice. I'm confused, remind me what your union and your voice is doing to help you right now. On another note, I sure hope that someday I'm not complaining on here that you "set the new benchmark for the industry's narrowbody rates". What's that line about throwing stones in glass houses? And as for making fun of you chief, well, I guess I am. I am making fun of how you would peel your own skin off in defense of mother delta, but she may be abandoning you General and you seem blind to that fact. Wake up!

 

[General Lee]

General,

I'm not giving you low blows...I am, however, sarcastically replying to your "Thank gawd we raised the bar" attitude. WTF did that accomplish? We can argue this until we are old, but it certainly didn't help your financial situation. You say we don't have a union or a voice. I'm confused, remind me what your union and your voice is doing to help you right now. On another note, I sure hope that someday I'm not complaining on here that you "set the new benchmark for the industry's narrowbody rates". What's that line about throwing stones in glass houses? And as for making fun of you chief, well, I guess I am. I am making fun of how you would peel your own skin off in defense of mother delta, but she may be abandoning you General and you seem blind to that fact. Wake up!

No, I tried to combat the notion that we Dalpa members don't care and love pay cuts. People are quick to forget that we ONCE fought for a GREAT contract, and the highest pay scales ever. We accomplished that too, and then others tried to get close or match. That is the way it should be. Leo Mullin signed the contract too. If you think that is why we went bankrupt (forget having money problems and then oil goes to $70 a barrel), then you are wrong. There were a lot of mistakes made, but not all by us, and we were a fixed cost, even though we were a high one. (until last December)

Maybe you haven't sensed that I now blame your management, and not your pilots for your low 100 seat pay rates. I know that you had no say, and that is unfortunate. I made a 180 on that issue.

As far as my unabashing love for Mother D, I think a lot of that has changed in the last couple years. I really can't believe what has happened since 9-11. It is a living nightmare. I have defended Delta throughout, yet I still get smacked by management. I lost a lot of the "Delta Spirit" in the last couple years. But, I still want Delta to succeed because I have enjoyed the flying part and I think we still have a chance to get better or atleast merge with someone that will allow us to go forward. I don't have the answers, but I am not turning my back completely on Delta, yet. I hope I don't have to.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[regionaltard]

If you think our pay alone sunk us, try to remember the part (even the judge brought this up) about Delta buying $2 billion in stock just prior to 9-11, and then it vaporizing.

One of the most amazing things about this sad spectacle has been how effective management has been in keeping the discussion on pilot pay instead of their own ineptitude. ALPA's failures over the last ten years are almost too numerous to count, but its outright surrender in the PR battle has to be close to the top of the list. The people who scrape the gum off the floors of busses and subways in New York earn more than many professional pilots do, but I gues that's just our dirty little secret.

And, I didn't slam you guys, rather your management. They are the ones who approved your 100 seat rates. Since you do not have a union or a voice, it really couldn't be stopped by you.

Fine, I'll slam them for you. It's the mother of all SJS epidemics. You're just begging the question with the "no union" line. These guys are flying for less than 30 cents on the dollar of what similar-sized equipment has paid in the past because......they want to. It's what they think they're worth. How can anyone hope to compete with an outfit that can get its aircraft groomers to fly the planes for free?

 

[regionaltard]

Network-King,

As far as the 100 seat rate, we are also fighting for the 79 seaters. I am sure that the rates will be low, but that wasn't our fault.......

Give me a Fokkin' break. These are jobs that were beneath your double-breasted majesty years ago because the a$$clowns running your union didn't think their squadron buddies' dignity would be adequately served by having them start their careers in these aircraft. The rates are low because ALPA created the until-then unheard of notion of professional pilots as second-class citizens. It is most definitely your fault.

As a connoisseur of great payback I think it's hilarious that your'e enthusiastic about the prospect of Delta pilots flying small jets at rates that would have been unthinkable for all but the dirtiest of dirtbag scooter-trash airlines 5 years ago. As someone who's looking at the prospect of an alter-ego of ALPA's creation being used as leverage to take money from my pocket and use it to buy some scumbag's ski chalet, I'm pissed.

LOA 50's narrow margin means one thing and one thing only: your management needs to just tweak its appeal to the naked self-interest of DALPA's green-slipping mercenaries a wee bit to achieve the ultimate beat-down a few months down the road.

Hear that Mr. Lee? That is the sound of inevitability.

80 for 80.

 

[(o) (o)]

General.....

You know.... sometimes I can see your point of view and learn to agree with you because being optomistic is positive, but you've been nothing, but a stupid koolaid drinker from day one and you've never actually looked at the facts. YOUR IN DENIAL MAN, get over it. You've been optomistic for the last 4 freaking years. Being positive about your company is one thing, but after the a$$ pounding that you've taken in the last 4 years its time to get your head out of your a$$ man. Get real for once...Im crossing my fingers and hoping that things will work out at big brown, but Im not holding my breath. Im being cautiously optomistic.... hoping for the best and assuming the worst. Wait till march and you'll see HOW DALPA will "SAVE" your compensation. Reality sucks man I know, but sooner or later your gonna have to crawl out from underneath that rock. Like you say ALL THE FREAKING TIME "Time will tell"...

Please enlighten us how DALPA is going to save the world again or management is going to come up with yet another Delta saving plan called douchebag airlines with you as the captain in a pink skirt dancing on water and the caption saying.... "Douche Bag Airlines.... the fresh new start"


bring it you koolaid drinking retard

This gotta be the best post I've read in the a long time!!

 

[HalinTexas]

General,

You raised the bar only to be smacked by it.

Remember, it was DALPA who first scoped OUT the RJ's back in '96. Had you scoped them in there wouldn't be this race to the bottom. DALPA and other union shops would have followed suit, i.e. CAL (non-ALPA at the time) and AMR (APA).

This "stepping on one's unit" is in large part why we're in the mess we, as an industry, are in today.

Don't you for one minute believe you've saved the company. As soon as you do, you'll be hit up for more.

Profit sharing, stock option, and scope will get you your control and honor.

 

[Chuck Yogourt]

The Atlanta media is reporting that Delta wants another %6 and will seek it. I am certain they will get it after watching what just happen.

 

[PHXFLYR]

General,

I know Delta better than you think and I see much in the post above that is correct.

Don't confuse the senior DALPA guys quest for millionaire status with "raising the bar". It's called cashing in. I don't blame them for it since it seems to be the American way. But facts are facts. Management and pilots took their cash and left a shell of a company. You have been left to pick up the pieces. "Good Luck, we are all counting on you"


Hopefully it will not happen at SWA.

Wanna bet?


PHXFLYR

 

[General Lee]

General,

You raised the bar only to be smacked by it.

Remember, it was DALPA who first scoped OUT the RJ's back in '96. Had you scoped them in there wouldn't be this race to the bottom. DALPA and other union shops would have followed suit, i.e. CAL (non-ALPA at the time) and AMR (APA).

This "stepping on one's unit" is in large part why we're in the mess we, as an industry, are in today.

Don't you for one minute believe you've saved the company. As soon as you do, you'll be hit up for more.

Profit sharing, stock option, and scope will get you your control and honor.

There you go, it was all our fault.... Give me a break. How about high management pay? Leo Mullin got $16 million, and he did a crappy job. Right? Don't blame it on the pilots and the C2K contract, since it was a fixed cost and they knew about it. We would have given more sooner, had there not been an offshore account for the top thirty executives. (that all left anyway)

And, we haven't saved the company, I know that. We gave some time for more negotiations to take place, and give us a better chance to get credit for a possible dumping of the pensions. That is why 58% voted YES. It doesn't mean we are their ATM. The judge is still watching this, and will approve or disapprove the final product, and she has already given her opinion on what we should get credit for.

As far as scope, profit sharing, etc----those are all high on the list. We all knew we were in for another pay cut, since the C2K contract really gave us a large raise, and that went away last December. We knew another one was on the way. We also know the pensions will be gone, and that is something we want credit for (out of the total $325 million needed by the company) and was acknowledged by the judge herself.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Give me a Fokkin' break. These are jobs that were beneath your double-breasted majesty years ago because the a$$clowns running your union didn't think their squadron buddies' dignity would be adequately served by having them start their careers in these aircraft. The rates are low because ALPA created the until-then unheard of notion of professional pilots as second-class citizens. It is most definitely your fault.

As a connoisseur of great payback I think it's hilarious that your'e enthusiastic about the prospect of Delta pilots flying small jets at rates that would have been unthinkable for all but the dirtiest of dirtbag scooter-trash airlines 5 years ago. As someone who's looking at the prospect of an alter-ego of ALPA's creation being used as leverage to take money from my pocket and use it to buy some scumbag's ski chalet, I'm pissed.

LOA 50's narrow margin means one thing and one thing only: your management needs to just tweak its appeal to the naked self-interest of DALPA's green-slipping mercenaries a wee bit to achieve the ultimate beat-down a few months down the road.

Hear that Mr. Lee? That is the sound of inevitability.

80 for 80.

Say what? You are nuts. Those planes that we want would directly replace planes we fly now. Should we not go after that? Sure, they say we might have a 100 seat rate like Jetblue's, but no orders as of yet. We also have a rate for the 737-700 and the 737-900, yet none of those on the ramp. The only thing we have heard so far was a request for 200 79 seaters. We want to replace the 737-200s with OUR PILOTS. Make sense yet chief?

A narrow margin means what again? Ok.....sure chief. I don't think a vote has ever been that close. That means one more time and the vote goes NEGATIVE. There were many on the fence, and they decided to give them one more chance. Really, the discontent is out there, I see it----you don't.
Both ALPA and management now see it.

And, you say a few months down the road, eh? A Summertime strike, or threat, will hurt sales, and that is known to everyone. I sure hope it doesn't get there, and I think there will be a settlement before then. If not, it may be a bumpy Summer.

Hear that Mr. Regional? How's your contract stuff going?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[regionaltard]

"We want to replace the 737-200s with OUR PILOTS."

And people in hell want ice water.

 

[HalinTexas]

There you go, it was all our fault.... Give me a break. How about high management pay? Leo Mullin got $16 million, and he did a crappy job. Right? Don't blame it on the pilots and the C2K contract, since it was a fixed cost and they knew about it. We would have given more sooner, had there not been an offshore account for the top thirty executives. (that all left anyway)

And, we haven't saved the company, I know that. We gave some time for more negotiations to take place, and give us a better chance to get credit for a possible dumping of the pensions. That is why 58% voted YES. It doesn't mean we are their ATM. The judge is still watching this, and will approve or disapprove the final product, and she has already given her opinion on what we should get credit for.

As far as scope, profit sharing, etc----those are all high on the list. We all knew we were in for another pay cut, since the C2K contract really gave us a large raise, and that went away last December. We knew another one was on the way. We also know the pensions will be gone, and that is something we want credit for (out of the total $325 million needed by the company) and was acknowledged by the judge herself.


Bye Bye--General Lee

You take kudos and sometimes you get lumps.

 

[General Lee]

"We want to replace the 737-200s with OUR PILOTS."

And people in hell want ice water.

That's why I pay lots of money to a union, to hopefully fight for me and others. We all have issues that are important, and this one really is important to most. ALPA knows this and it is a priority. We need to keep as many high paying (or potentially high paying) jobs as we can, and if we lose the 737-200s eventually, we have to find planes that will replace them to keep our jobs and allow our furloughs to return if they want to.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

You take kudos and sometimes you get lumps.

Unjustly. Everyone has an opinion, but a lot of people don't really do the research.

Sure, we could have scoped the RJs back in '96, but then again could you see into the future and envisioned this? How about 9-11? Why didn't you tell someone? We have now learned about what happened when losing those planes forever, and now we are trying to correct that same mistake, and everyone complains. We now want to preserve the jobs, but we get slammed. We are now, finally, doing the correct thing by trying to keep everything over 70 seats. But, the RJDC can't see that. Tell them CAL is hiring please.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Networ-King]

That's why I pay lots of money to a union, to hopefully fight for me and others. No you pay union dues because you HAVE to. And Alpo has done nothing but FY and all the junior guys to keep the senior guys happy. FAE and all....We all have issues that are important, and this one really is important to most. ALPA knows this and it is a priority. You must have been telling that to yourself for a very long time because you are actually starting to believe your own BS. Alpa's only priority is to keep the senior guys happy and keep the monthly dues coming in so that woerthless and the bunch get their salaries. We need to keep as many high paying (or potentially high paying) jobs as we can, and if we lose the 737-200s eventually, we have to find planes that will replace them to keep our jobs and allow our furloughs to return if they want to.

High paying jobs? Where? Hey skippy.... why don't you and the back stabbing, greenslipping whores at delta stop day dreaming and stop flying opentime? All the furloughs (the ones that want to)would have been back by now if the pilots with their scab like mentality at mother D would have stopped the opentime flying. And I think most people in this industry already realize that the greedy bunch at delta would do anything to keep "our jobs" as you put it. The only reason you are such a "kool-aid" drinker is because you have been working throughout this whole mess and have never been furloughed. Don't worry its just a matter of time with these baboons running delta into the ground. And Im sure when your getting the pounding in the rear by delta, you'll come on here and say " at least delta wore a condom when they pounded me.... unlike the other airlines in BK they didn't use any protection on their pilots."

Bye Bye--General Lee

I really think you should change your name to bahgdad bob general:laugh:

 

[regionaltard]

Unjustly. Everyone has an opinion, but a lot of people don't really do the research.

Sure, we could have scoped the RJs back in '96, but then again could you see into the future and envisioned this?

Nope, all that was necessary was to look into the past. I believe that's known in some circles as research.
​

 

[commuterpuke]

I can't wait for the day that I step onto one of those 90-100 seat RJ's as a passenger and stick my head in the cockpit as I'm boarding and ask the two double-breasted arrogant a$$holes are they Skywest or ASA!!!! They will no doubt fire back that they are mainline Delta, then I'll say "but this is an RJ!" The look on their faces will be priceless!

 

[Chuck Yogourt]

I can't wait for the day that I step onto one of those 90-100 seat RJ's as a passenger and stick my head in the cockpit as I'm boarding and ask the two double-breasted arrogant a$$holes are they Skywest or ASA!!!! They will no doubt fire back that they are mainline Delta, then I'll say "but this is an RJ!" The look on their faces will be priceless!

Great post. Then ask them if they have tried to get on flying a big jet somewhere. Tell them AirTran is hiring. That would be a blast.

 

[regionaltard]

Lalalalalalalala Ican'thearyou Ican'thearyou........

88488

​

 

[737 Pylt]

I can't wait for the day that I step onto one of those 90-100 seat RJ's as a passenger and stick my head in the cockpit as I'm boarding and ask the two double-breasted arrogant a$$holes are they Skywest or ASA!!!! They will no doubt fire back that they are mainline Delta, then I'll say "but this is an RJ!" The look on their faces will be priceless!

What about the arrogant commuterpuke a'hole walking in the grocery store with his uniform telling all the "chicks" he flies for DL!?
737
Was that you??