What A Freaking Shock!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[IB6 UB9]

General,

I'm not giving you low blows...I am, however, sarcastically replying to your "Thank gawd we raised the bar" attitude. WTF did that accomplish? We can argue this until we are old, but it certainly didn't help your financial situation. You say we don't have a union or a voice. I'm confused, remind me what your union and your voice is doing to help you right now. On another note, I sure hope that someday I'm not complaining on here that you "set the new benchmark for the industry's narrowbody rates". What's that line about throwing stones in glass houses? And as for making fun of you chief, well, I guess I am. I am making fun of how you would peel your own skin off in defense of mother delta, but she may be abandoning you General and you seem blind to that fact. Wake up!

 

[General Lee]

General,

I'm not giving you low blows...I am, however, sarcastically replying to your "Thank gawd we raised the bar" attitude. WTF did that accomplish? We can argue this until we are old, but it certainly didn't help your financial situation. You say we don't have a union or a voice. I'm confused, remind me what your union and your voice is doing to help you right now. On another note, I sure hope that someday I'm not complaining on here that you "set the new benchmark for the industry's narrowbody rates". What's that line about throwing stones in glass houses? And as for making fun of you chief, well, I guess I am. I am making fun of how you would peel your own skin off in defense of mother delta, but she may be abandoning you General and you seem blind to that fact. Wake up!

No, I tried to combat the notion that we Dalpa members don't care and love pay cuts. People are quick to forget that we ONCE fought for a GREAT contract, and the highest pay scales ever. We accomplished that too, and then others tried to get close or match. That is the way it should be. Leo Mullin signed the contract too. If you think that is why we went bankrupt (forget having money problems and then oil goes to $70 a barrel), then you are wrong. There were a lot of mistakes made, but not all by us, and we were a fixed cost, even though we were a high one. (until last December)

Maybe you haven't sensed that I now blame your management, and not your pilots for your low 100 seat pay rates. I know that you had no say, and that is unfortunate. I made a 180 on that issue.

As far as my unabashing love for Mother D, I think a lot of that has changed in the last couple years. I really can't believe what has happened since 9-11. It is a living nightmare. I have defended Delta throughout, yet I still get smacked by management. I lost a lot of the "Delta Spirit" in the last couple years. But, I still want Delta to succeed because I have enjoyed the flying part and I think we still have a chance to get better or atleast merge with someone that will allow us to go forward. I don't have the answers, but I am not turning my back completely on Delta, yet. I hope I don't have to.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[regionaltard]

If you think our pay alone sunk us, try to remember the part (even the judge brought this up) about Delta buying $2 billion in stock just prior to 9-11, and then it vaporizing.

One of the most amazing things about this sad spectacle has been how effective management has been in keeping the discussion on pilot pay instead of their own ineptitude. ALPA's failures over the last ten years are almost too numerous to count, but its outright surrender in the PR battle has to be close to the top of the list. The people who scrape the gum off the floors of busses and subways in New York earn more than many professional pilots do, but I gues that's just our dirty little secret.

And, I didn't slam you guys, rather your management. They are the ones who approved your 100 seat rates. Since you do not have a union or a voice, it really couldn't be stopped by you.

Fine, I'll slam them for you. It's the mother of all SJS epidemics. You're just begging the question with the "no union" line. These guys are flying for less than 30 cents on the dollar of what similar-sized equipment has paid in the past because......they want to. It's what they think they're worth. How can anyone hope to compete with an outfit that can get its aircraft groomers to fly the planes for free?

 

[regionaltard]

Network-King,

As far as the 100 seat rate, we are also fighting for the 79 seaters. I am sure that the rates will be low, but that wasn't our fault.......

Give me a Fokkin' break. These are jobs that were beneath your double-breasted majesty years ago because the a$$clowns running your union didn't think their squadron buddies' dignity would be adequately served by having them start their careers in these aircraft. The rates are low because ALPA created the until-then unheard of notion of professional pilots as second-class citizens. It is most definitely your fault.

As a connoisseur of great payback I think it's hilarious that your'e enthusiastic about the prospect of Delta pilots flying small jets at rates that would have been unthinkable for all but the dirtiest of dirtbag scooter-trash airlines 5 years ago. As someone who's looking at the prospect of an alter-ego of ALPA's creation being used as leverage to take money from my pocket and use it to buy some scumbag's ski chalet, I'm pissed.

LOA 50's narrow margin means one thing and one thing only: your management needs to just tweak its appeal to the naked self-interest of DALPA's green-slipping mercenaries a wee bit to achieve the ultimate beat-down a few months down the road.

Hear that Mr. Lee? That is the sound of inevitability.

80 for 80.

 

[(o) (o)]

General.....

You know.... sometimes I can see your point of view and learn to agree with you because being optomistic is positive, but you've been nothing, but a stupid koolaid drinker from day one and you've never actually looked at the facts. YOUR IN DENIAL MAN, get over it. You've been optomistic for the last 4 freaking years. Being positive about your company is one thing, but after the a$$ pounding that you've taken in the last 4 years its time to get your head out of your a$$ man. Get real for once...Im crossing my fingers and hoping that things will work out at big brown, but Im not holding my breath. Im being cautiously optomistic.... hoping for the best and assuming the worst. Wait till march and you'll see HOW DALPA will "SAVE" your compensation. Reality sucks man I know, but sooner or later your gonna have to crawl out from underneath that rock. Like you say ALL THE FREAKING TIME "Time will tell"...

Please enlighten us how DALPA is going to save the world again or management is going to come up with yet another Delta saving plan called douchebag airlines with you as the captain in a pink skirt dancing on water and the caption saying.... "Douche Bag Airlines.... the fresh new start"


bring it you koolaid drinking retard

This gotta be the best post I've read in the a long time!!

 

[HalinTexas]

General,

You raised the bar only to be smacked by it.

Remember, it was DALPA who first scoped OUT the RJ's back in '96. Had you scoped them in there wouldn't be this race to the bottom. DALPA and other union shops would have followed suit, i.e. CAL (non-ALPA at the time) and AMR (APA).

This "stepping on one's unit" is in large part why we're in the mess we, as an industry, are in today.

Don't you for one minute believe you've saved the company. As soon as you do, you'll be hit up for more.

Profit sharing, stock option, and scope will get you your control and honor.

 

[Chuck Yogourt]

The Atlanta media is reporting that Delta wants another %6 and will seek it. I am certain they will get it after watching what just happen.

 

[PHXFLYR]

General,

I know Delta better than you think and I see much in the post above that is correct.

Don't confuse the senior DALPA guys quest for millionaire status with "raising the bar". It's called cashing in. I don't blame them for it since it seems to be the American way. But facts are facts. Management and pilots took their cash and left a shell of a company. You have been left to pick up the pieces. "Good Luck, we are all counting on you"


Hopefully it will not happen at SWA.

Wanna bet?


PHXFLYR

 

[General Lee]

General,

You raised the bar only to be smacked by it.

Remember, it was DALPA who first scoped OUT the RJ's back in '96. Had you scoped them in there wouldn't be this race to the bottom. DALPA and other union shops would have followed suit, i.e. CAL (non-ALPA at the time) and AMR (APA).

This "stepping on one's unit" is in large part why we're in the mess we, as an industry, are in today.

Don't you for one minute believe you've saved the company. As soon as you do, you'll be hit up for more.

Profit sharing, stock option, and scope will get you your control and honor.

There you go, it was all our fault.... Give me a break. How about high management pay? Leo Mullin got $16 million, and he did a crappy job. Right? Don't blame it on the pilots and the C2K contract, since it was a fixed cost and they knew about it. We would have given more sooner, had there not been an offshore account for the top thirty executives. (that all left anyway)

And, we haven't saved the company, I know that. We gave some time for more negotiations to take place, and give us a better chance to get credit for a possible dumping of the pensions. That is why 58% voted YES. It doesn't mean we are their ATM. The judge is still watching this, and will approve or disapprove the final product, and she has already given her opinion on what we should get credit for.

As far as scope, profit sharing, etc----those are all high on the list. We all knew we were in for another pay cut, since the C2K contract really gave us a large raise, and that went away last December. We knew another one was on the way. We also know the pensions will be gone, and that is something we want credit for (out of the total $325 million needed by the company) and was acknowledged by the judge herself.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Give me a Fokkin' break. These are jobs that were beneath your double-breasted majesty years ago because the a$$clowns running your union didn't think their squadron buddies' dignity would be adequately served by having them start their careers in these aircraft. The rates are low because ALPA created the until-then unheard of notion of professional pilots as second-class citizens. It is most definitely your fault.

As a connoisseur of great payback I think it's hilarious that your'e enthusiastic about the prospect of Delta pilots flying small jets at rates that would have been unthinkable for all but the dirtiest of dirtbag scooter-trash airlines 5 years ago. As someone who's looking at the prospect of an alter-ego of ALPA's creation being used as leverage to take money from my pocket and use it to buy some scumbag's ski chalet, I'm pissed.

LOA 50's narrow margin means one thing and one thing only: your management needs to just tweak its appeal to the naked self-interest of DALPA's green-slipping mercenaries a wee bit to achieve the ultimate beat-down a few months down the road.

Hear that Mr. Lee? That is the sound of inevitability.

80 for 80.

Say what? You are nuts. Those planes that we want would directly replace planes we fly now. Should we not go after that? Sure, they say we might have a 100 seat rate like Jetblue's, but no orders as of yet. We also have a rate for the 737-700 and the 737-900, yet none of those on the ramp. The only thing we have heard so far was a request for 200 79 seaters. We want to replace the 737-200s with OUR PILOTS. Make sense yet chief?

A narrow margin means what again? Ok.....sure chief. I don't think a vote has ever been that close. That means one more time and the vote goes NEGATIVE. There were many on the fence, and they decided to give them one more chance. Really, the discontent is out there, I see it----you don't.
Both ALPA and management now see it.

And, you say a few months down the road, eh? A Summertime strike, or threat, will hurt sales, and that is known to everyone. I sure hope it doesn't get there, and I think there will be a settlement before then. If not, it may be a bumpy Summer.

Hear that Mr. Regional? How's your contract stuff going?


Bye Bye--General Lee