TIS
Wing, Nosewheel, Whatever
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2001
- Posts
- 366
There are two sides to every issue - unions included
You CLEARLY haven't been in this business long enough to understand that for every union protection you receive in your contract you give up something in negotiations for the next one. Or perhaps you do. It's not really for me to divine but the kind of one-sided rhetoric you put forth is due for an extreme makeover.
Now, before you bash me as an anti-unionist, understand that I became an ALPA member in 1990 and remained so as long as they would let me stay - WES went under in quite a while ago. I was vehemently in favor of their activities from the day I walked on to the property there - the climate was ripe for abuse. ALPA fought and WON a grievance filed on my behalf that restored my seniority after it was lost in the NPA general system bid I described earlier. That, in turn, allowed me to be trained in the aircraft that was correct for my seniority - which was worth a bit more money.
Our contract provided pathways of communication between the pilots and the company that were,once established mandated by federal law. In other words, the company HAD to listen. Distinct rules about successorship, training, duy rigs, trip rigs, reductions in force, company paid move when displacement occurred were just a few of the benefits we got from our dues.
But you try asking ANYONE who was a TWA employee where ALPA was for them! They won't sing such a sweet song. Unions aren't for all companies but they will come if the company fails to listen and respond with care when concerns are raised by potential collective bargaining converts.
I will not try to claim that the current market just won't support the wages of yesteryear - it might. But the company paying those wages has got to be profitable to do so. No, what the market won't support is the corporate structure of the companies that people often point the finger of woe at when discussing the declining state of the industry. All you have to do to see proof of this is look at who's making money - three of the four biggest money makers are union shops - UPS, FedEx, and Southwest. JetBlue hasn't got a union yet but they will in time.
I believe it is likely that United will not survive this episode - at least not in its present form. I think American and Delta have a ways to go yet before they're out, despite predictions of doom and gloom everywhere. After all they're not in bankruptcy - yet. I don't believe that any of this has to do exclusively with pilot salaries but what are you going to pay those salaries with if you just spent your last nickel on fuel for your 747? It all has to do with the way these companies opererate and the remendous burden of corporate bureacracy that they must shoulder.
I've been out of the union thing for a few years now and you know what? For me that's a good thing. I could whip out my contract with the best of 'em - even showed managment a thing or two about the English language as I read it to them over the phone when they were trying to extend my duty day.
Went through a negotiation too. Have you done that one yet? Not to be missed, my friend. Not to be missed. Your blood pressure will be 40 points higher ALL THE TIME. What a wonderful benefit your union provides for you! Know what else? They'll provide it every three to five years just so you know they're doing everything they can for you. They have huge reservoirs of venom, rumors, and vitriolic rhetoric stockpiled and ready for use like a weapon of mass destruction at the negotiation table. Sorry, but that's just not what I need after an evening out with the wife at the local Italian joint. They don't manufacture enough Tums for that. The fun of having your life peeled away from reality and turned upside down on that kind of a regularly scheduled basis is just not what I need. Some thrive on it though!
Remember that seniority thing I mentioned earlier? That sure helped out - the extra money and all. Problem was I was held out of seat and type for NINE MONTHS while the grievance ran its course and was owed about $2200.00 in retroactive pay differential (per the contract). The MEC chairman personally helped me understand why I wouldn't be receiving it. "Son," he said, "You got your airplane. Don't you think ALPA has done enough for you?" I guess he was right. What possible good could $2200.00 OF MY OWN MONEY have done me?
Now I know all this sure seems like I'm pretty bitter about unions but the fact is that I'm not. They did get me that seat and I did start making better money on the spot. It did improve my quality of life and it did help me learn what I needed to know to do what I do now. It's just that when I see someone raving in a way that would make Hoffa proud I just know from experience that there's more to the program than union rhetoric and propaganda. I know there can be more to a career in aviation than fumbling through my flight bag looking for that tattered, well worn contract document.
The phrase, "Be careful what you wish because you just might get it," is especially applicable to almost ANY union related matter. It's important to keep in mind that unions are run by politicians of a sort. Politicians have an agenda - ALWAYS. That agenda is not always on your side, whether you realize it or not.
TIS
You CLEARLY haven't been in this business long enough to understand that for every union protection you receive in your contract you give up something in negotiations for the next one. Or perhaps you do. It's not really for me to divine but the kind of one-sided rhetoric you put forth is due for an extreme makeover.
Now, before you bash me as an anti-unionist, understand that I became an ALPA member in 1990 and remained so as long as they would let me stay - WES went under in quite a while ago. I was vehemently in favor of their activities from the day I walked on to the property there - the climate was ripe for abuse. ALPA fought and WON a grievance filed on my behalf that restored my seniority after it was lost in the NPA general system bid I described earlier. That, in turn, allowed me to be trained in the aircraft that was correct for my seniority - which was worth a bit more money.
Our contract provided pathways of communication between the pilots and the company that were,once established mandated by federal law. In other words, the company HAD to listen. Distinct rules about successorship, training, duy rigs, trip rigs, reductions in force, company paid move when displacement occurred were just a few of the benefits we got from our dues.
But you try asking ANYONE who was a TWA employee where ALPA was for them! They won't sing such a sweet song. Unions aren't for all companies but they will come if the company fails to listen and respond with care when concerns are raised by potential collective bargaining converts.
I will not try to claim that the current market just won't support the wages of yesteryear - it might. But the company paying those wages has got to be profitable to do so. No, what the market won't support is the corporate structure of the companies that people often point the finger of woe at when discussing the declining state of the industry. All you have to do to see proof of this is look at who's making money - three of the four biggest money makers are union shops - UPS, FedEx, and Southwest. JetBlue hasn't got a union yet but they will in time.
I believe it is likely that United will not survive this episode - at least not in its present form. I think American and Delta have a ways to go yet before they're out, despite predictions of doom and gloom everywhere. After all they're not in bankruptcy - yet. I don't believe that any of this has to do exclusively with pilot salaries but what are you going to pay those salaries with if you just spent your last nickel on fuel for your 747? It all has to do with the way these companies opererate and the remendous burden of corporate bureacracy that they must shoulder.
I've been out of the union thing for a few years now and you know what? For me that's a good thing. I could whip out my contract with the best of 'em - even showed managment a thing or two about the English language as I read it to them over the phone when they were trying to extend my duty day.
Went through a negotiation too. Have you done that one yet? Not to be missed, my friend. Not to be missed. Your blood pressure will be 40 points higher ALL THE TIME. What a wonderful benefit your union provides for you! Know what else? They'll provide it every three to five years just so you know they're doing everything they can for you. They have huge reservoirs of venom, rumors, and vitriolic rhetoric stockpiled and ready for use like a weapon of mass destruction at the negotiation table. Sorry, but that's just not what I need after an evening out with the wife at the local Italian joint. They don't manufacture enough Tums for that. The fun of having your life peeled away from reality and turned upside down on that kind of a regularly scheduled basis is just not what I need. Some thrive on it though!
Remember that seniority thing I mentioned earlier? That sure helped out - the extra money and all. Problem was I was held out of seat and type for NINE MONTHS while the grievance ran its course and was owed about $2200.00 in retroactive pay differential (per the contract). The MEC chairman personally helped me understand why I wouldn't be receiving it. "Son," he said, "You got your airplane. Don't you think ALPA has done enough for you?" I guess he was right. What possible good could $2200.00 OF MY OWN MONEY have done me?
Now I know all this sure seems like I'm pretty bitter about unions but the fact is that I'm not. They did get me that seat and I did start making better money on the spot. It did improve my quality of life and it did help me learn what I needed to know to do what I do now. It's just that when I see someone raving in a way that would make Hoffa proud I just know from experience that there's more to the program than union rhetoric and propaganda. I know there can be more to a career in aviation than fumbling through my flight bag looking for that tattered, well worn contract document.
The phrase, "Be careful what you wish because you just might get it," is especially applicable to almost ANY union related matter. It's important to keep in mind that unions are run by politicians of a sort. Politicians have an agenda - ALWAYS. That agenda is not always on your side, whether you realize it or not.
TIS
