Was that a landing?

[ERfly]

Here's the premise, "Everybody takes off, but not everybody lands."

Obviously, the act of taking off would be hard to execute in any way that's different enough from any airline's operating manual's description of the act to fail to qualify as such.

However, at the other end, when it comes time to bring the flight to an end, it is possible (and the point of this post) to actually avoid landing the airplane.

"Was that a landing?" is the thought that goes through my mind when I fly with a guy who regularly touches down at speeds higher than Vref (by Vref I also mean Vat which is defined as "indicated airspeed at the threshold, 1.3 times Vso the stall speed in the landing configuration") or who touches down at a speed equal to or even higher than the computed Vtarget (Vref plus additives, where I work Vtarget is a minimum of Vref+5 knots and a maximum of Vref+20 knots).

I think that you can't call that a "landing". When you fly an aircraft to the runway at a speed that's above it's computed Vref, you haven't landed it. I'm willing to admit that it probably takes skill to put an aircraft smoothly onto a runway when it (the aircraft) is still well above its stall speed because at that speed it really wants to continue flying, especially if you're touching down at a speed as high as Vtarget.

So touching down at higher than Vref speed (or at or above Vtarget speed) isn't a real landing, instead it's simply flying the aircraft until it's completely out of altitude.

My interpretation of a "real landing" is that you've committed to ending the flight, which is to say that while you're still in the air you've begun reducing the thrust so as to reduce the aircraft's total energy state so that when it touches the ground it is below that of Vref and decreasing rapidly.

"Logbook"

 

[HowardBorden]

Maybe I'm oversimplifying this, but isn't a landing this?


Noun
An instance of coming or bringing something to land, from the air or water.
The action or process of doing this.

 

[Kermit_D_Frog]

Works in a Cessna real well. Is that what you're talking about?

 

[scoreboardII]

I nominate this thread for contender as "FI threads which should never have been started" award of the year.

 

[Tail Gunner Joe]

Lemme guess

I take it, you've never been in a -900ER.
(Boeing inflates Vref for tailstrike protection)

 

[CA1900]

Wow...


Next topic: Yoke pumpers! :laugh:

 

[4mr72drvr]

Ever done a gusty, crosswind landing in a 727-200. This is where the phrase "any one you walk away from, is a good one", came from.

 

[RT8VA]

sounds like one of the guys who holds the nose off till the tail runs out of down force and the nose wheel crashes to the runway

 

[booo]

A wise old Captain once told me "There are only three simple things a pilot must do to make a perfect landing every time, and you don't seem to know any of them."

When his next landing was just gawd awful, he said " There's never been a pilot born that knows all three!"

 

[SWA GUY]

Juniority,

Its not really MILLIONS of extra foot pounds of energy.... its really only TENS of extra foot pounds of energy. The schoolhouse likes to use big numbers to scare you.

 

[fletch717]

I hear you. All of those considerations are valid.

The thing that bothers me is all the extra energy (the millions of extra foot/pounds of brake energy) that has to be dissipated when somebody lands with all that extra speed.

And I'm not even trying to suggest that it's dangerous (in 99.99% of landings), it's just that it makes for an ugly, noisy, uncomfortable, graceless, passenger-slinging, hard braking type of roll-out when the fast-landers try to make the first (or second) turnoff.

Millions of foot pounds and 1.21 giga watts oh my god Dude.....really, you are exactly why AF guys get the reputation. Every flight is a mission to mars. 16,000 hours I've never even had a thought like that. BTW some of the worst pilots I have flown with were AF because of stuff like that.

 

[Hikoushi]

....Watch: ukeAll that no-one-else-is-a-real-Pilot-but-ME bull********************)

Get over it. Try to enjoy you life and your job more. You are not better than everyone else. Neither am I or anyone else. And no one would care if you were, either. Study hard, fly well, do your job to the best of your ability, try to expand your own box a little when you can, WITHOUT looking down on everyone else because they aren't as "perfect" as you.

If you are a captain, give your FO's enough space and autonomy to do their job well, and trust (but verify!) them to get it done. Watch what they do when you let them do their job their own way; you just may learn something new. If you don't like it or they aren't up to snuff, take command and change it. But don't pull that trigger over stupid little micromanaging BS things.

If you are a first officer, give the captain enough space and authority to run the ship their own way without constantly second-guessing them on stuff that is more to do with their personal rhythm than flight safety. If it is within the bounds of legality, safety, "standard-enoughness", respect, and reason, learn and try the captain's way of doing things, even if you don't like it, just to exercise your own mental flexibility. Keep what works and chuck the rest.

Have a beer. Lighten up.

 

[dollacrackho]

What is the ideal pee angle when standing at a urinal to prevent splashback?

 

[CRJ puppy]

What is the ideal pee angle when standing at a urinal to prevent splashback?

You need to decrease your pee vector speed by 10 kts. You're wasting excess energy in the form of splash back!

 

[Just thinking]

What is the ideal pee angle when standing at a urinal to prevent splashback?

Depends on the angle of the dangle.... some of us are on our tip toes to reach and arc upward to hit the wall never mind the urinal