Was that a landing?

[Whine Lover]

"I have never said a single word about this to anyone I've ever flown with."

That's good.

Sometimes it's just better to leave the Crazy Talk within the Internal Dialogue.




YKW

 

[Juniority]

So, based on these responses, I'm guessing it wouldn't be well accepted to say anything here on Flightinfo about the guy who adds 5 or 10 knots to his callout of the computed V rotate speed?

 

[imacdog]

Wrong.

I have never said a single word about this to anyone I've ever flown with. That's not my way, it's not how I was raised, I have better manners than to do anything like that.

That's why I wrote it here on Flightinfo, because I can't say it anywhere else.

Strange gets stranger.

 

[Just thinking]

Technique or procedure? What does the FOM/AOM say? Is it safe? What. it 2000 feet down the runway?

 

[Juniority]

Technique or procedure? What does the FOM/AOM say? Is it safe? What. it 2000 feet down the runway?

I hear you. All of those considerations are valid.

The thing that bothers me is all the extra energy (the millions of extra foot/pounds of brake energy) that has to be dissipated when somebody lands with all that extra speed.

And I'm not even trying to suggest that it's dangerous (in 99.99% of landings), it's just that it makes for an ugly, noisy, uncomfortable, graceless, passenger-slinging, hard braking type of roll-out when the fast-landers try to make the first (or second) turnoff.

 

[ERfly]

Here's the premise, "Everybody takes off, but not everybody lands."

Obviously, the act of taking off would be hard to execute in any way that's different enough from any airline's operating manual's description of the act to fail to qualify as such.

However, at the other end, when it comes time to bring the flight to an end, it is possible (and the point of this post) to actually avoid landing the airplane.

"Was that a landing?" is the thought that goes through my mind when I fly with a guy who regularly touches down at speeds higher than Vref (by Vref I also mean Vat which is defined as "indicated airspeed at the threshold, 1.3 times Vso the stall speed in the landing configuration") or who touches down at a speed equal to or even higher than the computed Vtarget (Vref plus additives, where I work Vtarget is a minimum of Vref+5 knots and a maximum of Vref+20 knots).

I think that you can't call that a "landing". When you fly an aircraft to the runway at a speed that's above it's computed Vref, you haven't landed it. I'm willing to admit that it probably takes skill to put an aircraft smoothly onto a runway when it (the aircraft) is still well above its stall speed because at that speed it really wants to continue flying, especially if you're touching down at a speed as high as Vtarget.

So touching down at higher than Vref speed (or at or above Vtarget speed) isn't a real landing, instead it's simply flying the aircraft until it's completely out of altitude.

My interpretation of a "real landing" is that you've committed to ending the flight, which is to say that while you're still in the air you've begun reducing the thrust so as to reduce the aircraft's total energy state so that when it touches the ground it is below that of Vref and decreasing rapidly.

"Logbook"

 

[HowardBorden]

Maybe I'm oversimplifying this, but isn't a landing this?


Noun
An instance of coming or bringing something to land, from the air or water.
The action or process of doing this.

 

[Kermit_D_Frog]

Works in a Cessna real well. Is that what you're talking about?

 

[scoreboardII]

I nominate this thread for contender as "FI threads which should never have been started" award of the year.

 

[Tail Gunner Joe]

Lemme guess

I take it, you've never been in a -900ER.
(Boeing inflates Vref for tailstrike protection)