Wacky new take-off procedure at Pinnacle

[Rally]

Thats what happens when some european operator hires 250 hour pilots.....they don't check for ice now everyone else pays.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

So unbelieveably stupid. So the new target is 10 degrees, but it's not.

You're still gonna rotate to 12-18 degrees to maintain V2+ 10-15. (depending on weight, flap, and power configuration). Fly the dang airplane.

 

[PCL_128]

Decided to put you on the list Joe.... maybe later I'll think about taking you off...

...

Holy crap, even I haven't put Joey on the ignore list, and I've been arguing with him for years! Hell, arguing with Joey is some of the best entertainment on FI!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Holy crap, even I haven't put Joey on the ignore list, and I've been arguing with him for years! Hell, arguing with Joey is some of the best entertainment on FI!

John has evolved over the years from sueing our union to union buster tool. Which is in effective the same thing, so he hasn't evolved. He's always been a dark hole.

He gets on this message board spewing his hate of the airline pilot profession and ALPA. Rarely can John discuss an issue without turning it into an ALPA discussion. He reminds me of the Adam Sandler SNL skits about the guy who has a show about his ex girlfriend who dumped him. Anger and insecurity.

The Denise Show: A classic from Sandler, as he delivers a skit about an ex-girlfriend he can't forget about.​

For John its 'The ALPA Show'.

John gets off on agitating and causing strife within the ALPA ranks. Oh he keeps is behavior within check so that he can keep an audience, but if he could get away with it he'd destroy ALPA, burn it to the ground, for his own personal glee. His failure as an elected ALPA rep makes him the John Ferg of regionals.

There has been a brief moment where Joey started to contribute to healthy discussion, but his spring loaded insecurities reared its nasty head and the ALPA bashing started again. He is the scorpion riding the frogs back. He can't help himself. His hate for the Air Line Pilot Profession is worse than a pergnant woman using crack.

Joey's problem isn't that ALPA is above criticism, they are not. And I've spoken to JP, PR, CB, BC and a couple of EVPs... they acknowledge the problems.. however solutions are more difficult. The question is... do you see Joey with the ability to work with ALPA volunters? Of course not... he has no skillset, no ability to stay focused on the issue.

He is persona non grata.

So he is limited to spewing his hate on Flight Info.

I engaged Joey on FI because of the influence his post could have on others.. mainly the young pilots to this career.

But he post are not worth it anymore. Joey has no value. He is a has been. He offers nothing to the Air Line Pilot career.

(he'll respond to this post with anti ALPA statements in a weak and pathetic attempt to instigate a reply, but like seeing a tarnished penny on the ground... its value is not worth the effort)

 

[PCL_128]

I agree with all of that. Doesn't make it any less entertaining, though.

 

[CX880]

....whatever happened to aviating? Procedures to correct procedures....We are going to procedure ourselves to death...This is what happens when procedures become more important that aviating....

It's simple....fly the d@mn airplane.....

That's because in RJs instructors focus on the automation. From what I saw in training advancing from the prop to the jet, if you'd take the FD off I suspect there'd be chaos. One guy even said he'd never be able to fly the airplane without the FD.

 

[rickair7777]

....whatever happened to aviating? Procedures to correct procedures....We are going to procedure ourselves to death...This is what happens when procedures become more important that aviating....

It's simple....fly the d@mn airplane.....

What happened to aviation is the same thing that's happening to the rest of America: Trial Lawyers Association.

Any half-assed ambulance chaser with a cocaine habit and a bad hairpiece could make hay out the fact that FD indicates 15 but the pilots are only supposed to pitch to 10. I can see why the companies feel the need to correct or remove the 15 degree FD target.

Oh, yeah the TLA is (and has been for decades) the single largest donor to the democratic party.

 

[Top Gum]

Exactly what type of training would you like to receive in how to rotate @ 3deg sec to 10 deg? Should that require a sim session? Perhaps a take home study guide to be followed by a written test?

Last time I checked that's just basic flying and airmanship. O.K.......O.K......if you insist, here is the training. At Vr slowly pull aft on the controls..... count softly "1 one thousand"....."2 one thousand"......."3 one thousand" You should now be at 10 degrees pitch. Check you airspeed and adjust your pitch to fine tune your speed. Not really all that tough now was it?

I didn’t say that I would like to see any training on this.

Strictly speaking from a liability standpoint I am just a bit surprised that any company would not want a documented training event just to cover themselves on changes like this. I know that airlines spend a lot of time in the sim fine tuning and evaluating any procedure involved with the takeoff phase. This is especially true in regards to a procedure related to a V1 cut or t/r deployment.

You really should take the time to actually read a post before replying. I guess you may be a check airman that gets off on stuff like generalizing procedures and then taking stabs at someone that you think may not be as experienced.

 

[xjcaptain]

I didn’t say that I would like to see any training on this.

Strictly speaking from a liability standpoint I am just a bit surprised that any company would not want a documented training event just to cover themselves on changes like this. I know that airlines spend a lot of time in the sim fine tuning and evaluating any procedure involved with the takeoff phase. This is especially true in regards to a procedure related to a V1 cut or t/r deployment.

You really should take the time to actually read a post before replying. I guess you may be a check airman that gets off on stuff like generalizing procedures and then taking stabs at someone that you think may not be as experienced.

I guess I did generalize.......3 seconds would give a 9 degree pitch attitude with a proper rotation rate. I'll try to be more specific in the future. 3 1/3 seconds will get you to 10. As far as the rest, I'll let the company worry about the "what if's" in regards to liability. We just fly 'em, and personally I think that people even mentioning the need for training on an issue like this is a joke.

As far as the rest, sounds like i may have ruffled some feathers. I guess I could apologize for any perceived and unintentional remark that may have offended. But I wont. Get over it. If people disagree with me I don't mind or care. I guess some peoples skin may be a bit thinner than others.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Never thought this quote would be appropriate for a normal takeoff, but....

"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."

 

[DX Rick]

Without the flight director, I don't know which way is up.

 

[Sam Snead]

what is the tail strike attitude on the -200?

How about the -700 and -900?

All this rotation talk has made me curious.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

I don't see what the big deal is. One of the hardest things coming over from the Saab was remembering to turn ON the flight director for takeoff.

 

[DX Rick]

what is the tail strike attitude on the -200?

How about the -700 and -900?

All this rotation talk has made me curious.

No idea. You have to really yank on it to get a tail strike in a -200.
I recently flew with a check airman and he said there are a lot of problems with people over rotating, and rotating too fast, getting the Continuous Ignition light.

Ever since he told me about this, I've been paying attention to the CI light, and I've noticed that some captains and myself get it once in a while on take off....not that they're erratic take offs.

 

[doh]

Is the thing still deferable? Well then, practice taking off without it so you will be ready for the day! Problem solved. When I first upgraded, we didn't use it for takeoff at Comair anyway, so that pretty much sums it up for me.

 

[JoeMerchant]

....heck when it's VMC....turn you screens off and takeoff looking out the window.....Try that.....see what happens...It actually works......

 

[Charty]

Who follows that thing anyway? I thought that was for pilots that had no basic flying skills. HAHA! I guess I got used to flying junk Lears that didn't have a FD.

 

[pilotdiscretion]

When did they put a flight director in the CRJ?

 

[Flyer1015]

When did they put a flight director in the CRJ?

So it would be more like a video game, and the "Generation ME" kids [with gel-spiked hair, backpack, and frosted hairtips] could better cope with it.

I dunno, but that's just my guess......

 

[siucavflight]

So it would be more like a video game, and the "Generation ME" kids [with gel-spiked hair, backpack, and frosted hairtips] could better cope with it.

I dunno, but that's just my guess......

I think he asked when, not why.