Vote underway at Skywest

120% Torque

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Just wanted to throw this out there because the last several votes at Skywest have gone down with a lot of peculiarities. The group that is supposed to represent the pilots (Sapa) is all in favor of this latest proposal. They are also soley conducting and controlling the vote. An informal poll has shown a 91% rejection of the latest pay proposal. Just like the 70 for 50 everybody seems to be against this proposal yet somehow the last one passed. With the voting system there are specific codes assigned for pilots based on ss number and name. This is linked to pilots on the pilot list. The big problem is that at the whim of the persons conducting the vote, Sapa, they can generate as many additional vote codes as they please. Furthermore, what is to stop those in charge from assigning unused votes in the final minutes before the polls close? Once again, keep in mind Sapa is all for this proposal and Sapa has the ability to manipulate the vote. Don’t want to be a conspiracy theorist but with no audit or anybody else who is opposed to this proposal looking over the shoulder of the couple of people in charge they might feel based upon their personal objectives they need to "help this vote along". Talk amongst yourselves.
 

120% Torque

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Btw, dont believe sapa when they tell you the votes cant be manipulated, go directly to the providers of the vote system and they will tell you that unless they are hired for an additional fee to conduct the vote as an unbiased third party moderator the vote can be effected by those who control the system. In fact with this system new vote codes can be generated without any trouble at all. This is supposed to be used if someone was conducting a vote and more members were then allowed to vote. I believe the system was also designed (assuming not being conducted by the vote software provider) and implimented with people on both sides of the table to audit and verify a legitimate vote. Unfortunately once again management and in this case sapa controls alll the cards. Dont be surprised when the vote passes and sapa says something to the effect that alot of people realized the value of "dont leave money on the table" which is one of the soundbytes of the sapa crap pay agreement campaign 2005. Same stuff, different year. Then every pilot you talk to for the next three years will say they voted against the proposal (and they probably did) but everybody will be scratching their heads wondering what happened but will have no recourse.
 

viper548

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120% Torque said:
Dont be surprised when the vote passes and sapa says something to the effect that alot of people realized the value of "dont leave money on the table"
I'm willing to leave my money on the table. Do you have change for a quarter?
 

Texx

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viper548 said:
I'm willing to leave my money on the table. Do you have change for a quarter?
I'm happy to see the Skywest pilots taking a stand.

The most important vote is not before you now but will be the one your pilot group takes with the NLRB. Most of the Skywest pilots have been down that road several times before but this time it will have the greatest impact on their pilot group.

Good luck.
 

synchoff

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Well, it's not any better at this ALPA carrier (Mesa).

Ballots for nomonies for local exectuive council representatives (LEC's) are mailed DIRECTLY to the CURRENT HOME ADDRESS of the LEC guy who's position is on the line (re: has the most to lose) to be counted.

Not saying this is automatically corrupting. But I can't think of any LEGITIMATE democratic process that sends it's ballots direct to the home of the guy who stands to lose his spot.

Go figure.
 

atrdriver

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At least if they vote in ALPA they will have some recourse if and when management starts trying to play one group against the other. As it is they have no recourse, leverage, or anything else to help them fight.
 

auspac

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"The group that is supposed to represent the pilots (Sapa) is all in favor of this latest proposal."

I don't believe that. In fact they did not really endorse it but put it up for a vote for us to decide. I believe most SAPA guys are pretty frustrated that after months of continued negotiations the best they could get out of management was the same that was offered early in the year. Obviously SAPA has no leverage and we as a pilot group will have to decide whether we are willing to pay for the type of leverage that a union can provide. We can say what we want about SAPA as a body but I believe that most of the individuals who make up SAPA are hard working guys who are trying to make a difference. Most of them spend a lot of unpaid time for our benefit. No, I am not and never have been in SAPA but I respect those who are trying to make a difference. Have you "120% Torque" ever tried to make a difference within SAPA, or will you work for ALPA if we go down that road?
 

Splert

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Most of them spend a lot of unpaid time for our benefit.
Each one is paid either 105 hours a month or 2 for 1 duty time for SAPA related duties (day off, on duty or on an overnight) and/or trip coverage. On top of this MBIP is paid on SAPA pay.
 

Heavy Set

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Message to Skywest Pilots: DON'T BLOW IT!!!!!! This is your chance to regain some of your lost respect in the regional industry. Think LONG-TERM.... The terms being offered are a complete JOKE and everyone is watching to see your response.
 

FL280

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Heavy Set said:
Message to Skywest Pilots: DON'T BLOW IT!!!!!! This is your chance to regain some of your lost respect in the regional industry. Think LONG-TERM.... The terms being offered are a complete JOKE and everyone is watching to see your response.


heavy, go back to your ms fltsim, your not a pilot.
 

Heavy Set

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FL280 said:
heavy, go back to your ms fltsim, your not a pilot.
Ohhh you got me!!!! I guess stating the obvious about Skywest is just too much for you.
 

auspac

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"Each one is paid either 105 hours a month or 2 for 1 duty time for SAPA related duties (day off, on duty or on an overnight) and/or trip coverage. On top of this MBIP is paid on SAPA pay."

True - I believe only the president and secretary receive the 105 hours, the others are paid for meetings and travel, and I do think that most spend much time that is unpaid for our benefit. If it was such a lucrative position to be a SAPA representative I doubt if we'd see elections go uncontested or have only two or three people running.
 

Bluto

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auspac said:
"The group that is supposed to represent the pilots (Sapa) is all in favor of this latest proposal."

I don't believe that. In fact they did not really endorse it but put it up for a vote for us to decide.
The SAPA representative board explicitly recommended a vote FOR the pay proposal.
Any questions?

To be fair, there are definitely reps who disagree with the representative board, but they are, after all, the representative board. Meaning, they represent SAPA.
 
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Splert

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auspac said:
"Each one is paid either 105 hours a month or 2 for 1 duty time for SAPA related duties (day off, on duty or on an overnight) and/or trip coverage. On top of this MBIP is paid on SAPA pay."
auspac said:
True - I believe only the president and secretary receive the 105 hours, the others are paid for meetings and travel, and I do think that most spend much time that is unpaid for our benefit. If it was such a lucrative position to be a SAPA representative I doubt if we'd see elections go uncontested or have only two or three people running.


I have heard some representative credit around 140 hours a month. Others have asked SAPA to release what they credit for SAPA related duties. No reply.

They are paid 2 for 1 flight pay for SAPA related stuff. If a SAPA representative is on an overnight, at home or on a DH he can bill the company for SAPA related duty. It’s a great part time job and fits nice into reserve or line flying.

Here is a test.

Go to the SAPA site and use the GMT and request they release what they earn from SAPA. Remember it took them almost 3 years to admit they even got paid. The ol' 'we are just volunteers' BS.

The group will never know how 'lucrative" the position is without the data, right?

SAPA will not release the data. I know because others have asked.
 

Bluto

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That's disturbing Splert, I can't wait until the next time a SAPA guy bashes ALPA national for making so much cash...
 
H

Halo_RJdriver

Vote no for the sorry trailer trash proposal!

SGU is already chatting with ASA about 900's they don't give us the time of day.

Sapa don't go away mad, JUST GO AWAY!!!
 

difete

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I am all for a "NO" on this vote. But then what? Managment says, ok then, see ya... There is nothing else SAPA can do. I think to be paid by aircraft type, while all other competitors (regionals) compensate by seating arrangment is not a form of compensation that is fair and competitive with the current market.

To fly a 90 seater for a 50 seat salary?? So much for profit sharing.

My .2 cents.
 

OCP

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Splert said:
I have heard some representative credit around 140 hours a month. Others have asked SAPA to release what they credit for SAPA related duties. No reply.

They are paid 2 for 1 flight pay for SAPA related stuff. If a SAPA representative is on an overnight, at home or on a DH he can bill the company for SAPA related duty. It’s a great part time job and fits nice into reserve or line flying.

Here is a test.

Go to the SAPA site and use the GMT and request they release what they earn from SAPA. Remember it took them almost 3 years to admit they even got paid. The ol' 'we are just volunteers' BS.

The group will never know how 'lucrative" the position is without the data, right?

SAPA will not release the data. I know because others have asked.

Would seem like the SAPA guys would really NOT want SAPA to go away with pay rates like that!
 

Rick James

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I'm getting really tired of my new FO's telling me "who cares 1.2% is better than nothing". I should have a script trying to explain how little they know of the industry. Thankfully, every now and then I'll get a Laker or someone that's atleast done more than flight instructing to exchange ideas with. I have a feeling things are really going to change at SKW with ASA and all the new BK's.
 
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