Viva Le France!

[bugchaser]

350, first off, let me apologize for venting on you like I did. Nothing personal, just frustration. However, your comment about the danger of the ag chemicals once again shows your ignorance. There you go again making an observation about something that you have no experience with. The ag industry is highly regulated and operators are well trained and work very hard to minimize risks. Please limit your comments to things that you have knowledge of.

 

[350DRIVER]

posted by Tim

Additionally, you have spent several months or more in Iraq, correct??

I have never been nor do I have any desire, want, or ambition to visit that country. UN inspectors have however spent quite some time over there recently and they have failed to prove without a reasonable doubt that anything along the lines of weapons of mass destruction exist present day, that is what my information was based on. Seems like a pretty reliable source in my opinion. I am 100% confident that "IF" they ( UN inspectors) could have found anything along these lines then ALL allies, countries, etc, and ME would have never ever questioned this "war" at all. I just see a lack of evidence, maybee it is ignorance on my part (I hope that is the case) but I just could not imagine "W" or ANYONE pro-war would hold anything back, doing so is NOT "winning" anymore support world wide as "W" wanted from the get go. This is the main reason why I find it extremely hard to believe or imagine that "top officials" know much much more than has been made public... Seems to me that logical reasoning would illustrate to make ALL facts and evidence KNOWN so we could have gotten the UN backing and that magic vote.. Why would they not make facts and evidence known.?? It sure seems like they attempted to make a case for this..

Of course you have or you wouldnt have all of that vast knowledge.

I know nothing more than you or the next poster. I have looked inside and out to "attempt" to locate the facts and evidence that you claim exist. I have failed in this attempt however. Like I said I sure hope I am wrong and from the tone of your posts it sure sounds like I am way off in right field which I hope is the case..

Try to look at the big picture and not just your little world. There is plenty of evidence!

Like I have said many times, I hope I am wrong..... Time shall tell..

I think we should agree to disagree and keep our thoughts and prayers with the US service men and women who are putting their lives on the line now... I can only pray that they come back alive and I thank every one of them for the freedom that I have been fortunate enough to enjoy...

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[414Flyer]

UN inspectors have however spent quite some time over there recently and they have failed to prove without a reasonable doubt that anything along the lines of weapons of mass destruction exist present day, that is what my information was based on. Seems like a pretty reliable source in my opinion.

snip

I am 100% confident that "IF" they ( UN inspectors) could have
found anything along these lines then ALL allies, countries, etc, and ME would have never ever questioned this "war" at all. I

The inspectors were not there to prove Iraq did not have any. That was Iraqs job. It was already established that Iraq has had weapons, and it was the job of the Iraqis to prove that such weapons and systems did not exist anymore.

The Iraqis claimed the thousands of tons of Vx and Mustard gas were destroyed but they did not have any proof at all. It was just take them at their word they were destroyed. Yeah right.

Just like Iraq also overstated how many chemical munitions they had used in the Iran Iraq War too. Blix didnt even fall for that one.

The disarmament process is not rocket science, and countries have done it before with none of these games, charades, etc.

Did you see any of this going on for a dozen years and 17 resolutions when Kazackstan or South Africa decided to get rid of nukes?

 

[Cardinal]

What a complete "joke". After reading some of your replies Cardinal I had thought you could have done much better than that one.... Number, quantities, places, people, specs, and conversations?? W has been able to show the world absolutely no proof at all, hell he can't even get a UN support in his favor nor can he even get our allies on his side- Denial, brainwashed, propaganda I think sums it up.
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,77695,00.html
There's most of it in Powells UN presentation. I presume you read the whole thing yourself in order to make such judgements? I don't know what it is that you people require. Videos of this presentation mailed to every US household? A tour of the CIA? A glass-floored, self-lighting parking lot labeled "Chicago"?

You've got it right, In denial, brainwashed, and listening to it's own propaganda, thats the UN alright. The French talking about diplomacy, well it worked with Hitler, didn't it? Mandella taking jabs at Bush, the best argument 'ole Nelson can come up with: "Iz it perhaps becauz de Secertary General iz a black man?" 20-odd years in prison and that is the best retort he can come up with? Much of the world community is a joke. It is this world community, these nations that really have it all figured out, Angola, Guinea, Sudan, and the like, that are to dictate policy to the United States?

To say they've waffled is an understatement. Much vigor an vim when they have pen to paper (November, 1441) but when it is time to cash the check they wrote, they seem to pale. By March they have made it full circle to the point of being proven useless. For what it's worth, this condition of the UN is only temporary. The Good Book fortells a rise in their power until they are the preeminent power on Earth, at which point they get their butts kicked by Him, but I'll bet you really ain't interested in that...

 

[350DRIVER]

There's most of it in Powells UN presentation.

RIGHT. !! That is why the security council and the ENTIRE world as well as our allies are backing this war(sure).... Cardinal, you could have done much better than that statement, atleast I was hoping you had a better way to counter the propaganda that you have bought into. I guess I was wrong though...

I don't know what it is that you people require.

Does "you people" also include France, Germany, Canada, many other countries, many members of congress, millions of other Americans as well.?? Cardinal, I must say that I am just a tad dissapointed in your attempt to counter the "propaganda" that you have bought into.. You have no come back at all with regards to facts and evidence, what other assumptions are you going to make now.?? ( I could only imagine)

You've got it right, In denial, brainwashed, and listening to it's own propaganda, thats the UN alright.

RIGHT again ( I hope that you sense the sarcasm). !! You remind me of a little kid who didn't get what he wanted at the toy store so he cried and cried and cried until mommy finally gave in, fortunately the UN will NOT do this since there is no justification for them to do this. I guess you will just have to continue to rant and make excuses for this action or should I say lack of action by the UN, France, Canada, and millions of others around the world.

Cardinal, why waste your time and mine? debating something that you have no proof of and every post you bring nothing to the table except out of whack opinions and assumptions that the majority of the people just don't buy... bottom line... Now go ahead and counter that point with the so-called polls who "target" a certain number of people.

The inspectors were not there to prove Iraq did not have any.

What were there for then, to celebrate with the Iraqi people?? I think not and they did all they could to find a smoking gun BUT why couldn't they.??? I just think it bothers you just as much as it bothers any others that you are NOT going to receive the support that you wish you could drum up... One can not make some believe in propaganda, it is just sometimes impossible.

Once again, we should be concerned with the troops and that is where ALL our thoughts and prayers should be right now especially so close to this confict... YOUR opinions are meaningless to me as well as my opinions are meaningless to you so who cares?? I know for a fact that I don't....

c h e e r s

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[metrodriver]

posted by 350 driver:
Well I hope you wonder alot since common sense is hard for many to grasp

that's true. That's why we have a government that tells people excactly what to do and it's also the reason there are so many lawsuits and warning labels on things.You want examples?
smoking is bad for your health-NO SH^T!
on a cup of coffee: CONTENTS HOT-yeah, I don't like cold coffee!
on a microwave:don't put live anymals in microwave.
Why do trains have to blow the horns when passing a gated crossing? Because some morons don't have the common sense to figure out that a train is coming when the gates are down!

 

[350DRIVER]

posted by Cardinal

I don't know what it is that you people require. Videos of this presentation mailed to every US household?

What exactly did Powell show during this presentation to prove that Iraq has all of these weapons.?? Apparently not only did I miss this (watched the presentation twice in fact) "overwhelming" evidence BUT I guess France, Canada, Germany, many other Americans had also missed these key points. I think NOT.

Common sense would illustrate without a single doubt in anyones mind that if in fact Powell DID do such a great job (as you tend to believe) and "proved" his case against Iraq then we would have UN backing, support from France, Germany, Canada, and many many others...... I think that would be very hard to dispute.

thoughts & prayers are with the troops as the deadline nears.


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[surplus1]

Where did this 85% of British people come from? An opinion poll no doubt that are more often than not, wrong.

Yes, I got it from a poll, taken by the BBC news service. Since those who support the war use polls taken in the US to "prove" that most Americans support it, I thought that a British pole, taken by the British press, about the British people, was fair game.

I guess you're in the 15% of Brits that do support it which of course makes the poll wrong. That was tough to figure out.

I too have seen the US flag burned, it was in the streets of Paris, it has happened on more than one occasion.

Could you please tell me when this happened and what was the occasion? I'd would like to know. Given the extent to which the French are disliked both in the US and the United Kingdom, if that happened and it wasn't shown on TV a thousand times, that would be a virtual miracle. I think if British and American TV had the opportunity they would hire and pay Frenchmen to burn American flags and British flags too. Think of the ratings!! Budwiser and Guinness would pay a fortune to put commercials on that program.

I was in london at that time and I don't recall "masses" of people in the streets burning flags.

I confess I was NOT in London at the time. I watched it transpire, on television, from my living room in Florida. British citizens, burning the American flag, my flag, it the streets of your Capitol city. At that time FOX News didn't exist, so it must have been real.

I have also seen the British flag burned and not mention a few Beatles albums too. Those that do these things do not represent the silent majority in any country.

Since I'm not British, as long as it is not in my country or done by Americans, I'm not too concernd about who burns the union jack or where they do it, . As for Beatles albums... who cares. I'm quite sure that flag burnings do not represent the silent majority. They represent the vocal majority or minority. Who they represent is irrelevant to me. I would not want to see even one American burning a British flag.

Sadam supports terror and finances it in several ways that are very well documented. It is time for him to go.

I agree that he is evil and I agree that he should go. I do NOT agree that the method used should be the unilateral invasion of Iraq by the United States in an undeclared war.

 

[414Flyer]

Sorry, but it is not UNILATERAL. UNILATERAL means ONE. We are not there alone. Doesnt matter if it was just one other country with us, it would still not be unilateral. Unilateral also does not mean without the UN.

I would take UK and AUS on my side anytime over France and Germany. And in addition to them, there is Poland, Czech Republic, and several other eastern European countries have either troops or support personell there.

Qatar is giving us a huge base with their blessing, Turkey is giving us overflight. And there are other countries doing what they can but doing it more under the table due to domestic concerns.

There is absolutely no way it is just us...

 

[ArcticFlier]

hell he can't even get a UN support in his favor nor can he even get our allies on his side- Denial, brainwashed, propaganda I think sums it up.


come on..

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No.............but he's got 45 other countries behind us. Has anyone noticed that many of the countries backing this action are former Soviet bloc countries? They know what a bad guy looks like better than most.

AF

 

[WMUSIGPI]

"I'd rather have the German army in front of me than the French army behind me"
General of the Army,
Douglas MacArthur

reported on the news today that France would support the US if Saddam used chemical or biological weapons in an attack against someone. See above quote as far as how much we need French help when it comes to war. At least they will have plenty of sand around to go burying their heads in if they do show up.

Guess Iran and the Kurds don't count as someone to France....

The best way to take care of the Middle East is develop an alternative to fossil fuels and tell them to keep their oil, take back our nukes from Isreal and tell all the countries there grow up and learn to live with each other or kill each other til there is noone left.

Either way who cares....But we gotta quit needing all their oil first.
Just too bad we didn't learn that back in the 70's or 90's.

"Those that do not learn from history are condemed to repeat it"
Former Prime Minister, Great Britan,
Winston Churchill

 

[Cardinal]

Does "you people" also include France, Germany, Canada, many other countries, many members of congress, millions of other Americans as well.?? Cardinal, I must say that I am just a tad dissapointed in your attempt to counter the "propaganda" that you have bought into.. You have no come back at all with regards to facts and evidence, what other assumptions are you going to make now.?? ( I could only imagine)

That is exactly who "you people" includes. The Administration basically said "Here's the deal, here's some details, we can't give you more than this and still protect our sources." Giving the French a warm-and-fuzzy is not worth the life of one US loyalist. So screw em. Believe me, I'm a conspiracy theorist if there ever was one, and believe in as limited a Government role as possible. But there comes a point where some ounce of trust has to placed in the authorities. At 300' HAT I trust that that US spec Localizer is accurate. I have many reasons that persuade me that the system is working, but I can never be ultimately sure. US intel says that Saddam hasn't disarmed, this fits with his modus operendi and historical behavior, and thus I'm inclined to believe it. I don't intend on traveling to Iraq to count warheads, so I will take the Government's word on this one. "You people" have been presented the same evidence and choose not to believe it. That is your right. But because you do not believe this evidence does not mean it doesn't exist. Because you choose not to see it as a justification for war, that does not invalidate it's existence. That is the logical fallacy which your side has adopted which pisses me off to no end. I don't care if you believe it or not, but admit that it exists!

If an individual wants to believe that 2+2=5, there is nothing I can do to change his mind. If he is not willing to listen to a logical explanation, if he sees the 4 blocks sitting in front of him and declares them to be 5, at that point it is indeed fruitless to argue. Lemme quote some Ayn Rand, italics mine:

"Thinking is man's only basic virtue, from which all the others proceed. And his basic vice, the source of all his evils, is that nameless act which all of you practice, but struggle never to admit: the act of blanking out, the willful suspension of one's consciousness, the refusal to think - not blindness, but the refusal to see; not ignorance, but the refusal to know. It is the act of unfocusing your mind and inducing an inner fog to escape the responsibility of judgment - on the unstated premise that a thing will not exist if only you refuse to identify it, that A will not be A so long as you do not pronounce the verdict 'it is.' Non-thinking is an act of annihilation, a wish to negate existence, an attempt to wipe out reality. But existence exists; reality is not to be wiped out, it will merely wipe out the wiper. By refusing to say 'It is' you are refusing to say 'I am.' By suspending your judgment, you are negating your person. When a man declares: 'Who am I to know?' - he is declaring: 'Who am I to live'"
(Atlas 931)

http://komo1000news.com/audio/kvi_aircheck_031003.mp3 Give a listen to this brief discussion between an Iraqi expat (yes, he certainly has a horse in this race, but I think we can pay him heed) and Andrea Buffa, a spokesperson for United For Peace and Justice. 2.5 Mb. It's exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[sidesaddle]

It is interesting that some people in this country blast our President and in effect, apologize for Saddam (by just wanting to sweep the whole thing under the rug in the so called name of "peace". This excerpt of an article in a British paper was enlightening:

"The USA gives their own people freedom, the Government listens to the people. We don't know if the Americans really care about us, but we hope they bring us freedom," said Ahmed, 23, a student from Baghdad.

The sheer lack of freedom in Iraq and brutal nature of the regime were the sources of hatred for Mr Saddam, the Iraqis said. Many told of family members killed or maimed, or of personal humiliations suffered at the hands of Mr Saddam's security forces.

Nadim, 29, a shoemaker from Baghdad, recounted a particularly ruthless event he saw on a Baghdad street last week. He watched Saddam's security agents cut the tongue out of a man rumoured to have spoken badly about the Government.

"They put pliers in his mouth to hold his tongue, then cut it off with scissors," he said of the officers who he believes will be the first targets of the Iraqi people if the US launches a strike.

"When war starts, the people will try to take revenge on Saddam's security agents. They will then try to flee the country," he said.

Nadim's story is not unusual. Allah, 25, from Baghdad, told of an female doctor who was jailed and poisoned after she spoke out against one of Mr Saddam's son's habit of raping young girls. "She went to jail and they gave her a shot (injection). After two months they let her go, but she wasn't normal any more. She's crazy now," he said.



God bless our troops and the Iraqi people who will soon be liberated.

 

[100LL... Again!]

When the dust settles on this one, all of you so-called 'peace' oriented creeps will be looking for a way to get on the bandwagon. Even France is waffling now. Too late for all of you. I'd love to see you exiled. 'Peace' for you = death for others.

You are selfish cowards. And you wouldn't know real peace if it bit you in the a##.

Give me liberty or give me death.

Your motto: "Please don't hurt me - I'll do anything."

I do feel sorry for you though, you have no morals and no confidence that this country is RIGHT.

 

[DC4boy]

I really feel sorry for 350. Quite naive. Stop leading with your emotions son, you will see the light.

Take a look guys, about three anti- war posters on a four page thread.


Make any sense????

Borders
Language
Culture

 

[350DRIVER]

I really feel sorry for 350. Quite naive. Stop leading with your emotions son, you will see the light.

Ignorance is bliss.

I just tend to look at the facts (nothing more and nothing less), unfortunately there are others like yourself who feel compelled to buy into propaganda and who tend to jump on moving band wagons.. I hope you enjoy the "ride". 2004 will be here soon enough.

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[ArcticFlier]

Ignorance is bliss.

I just tend to look at the facts (nothing more and nothing less), unfortunately there are others like yourself who feel compelled to buy into propaganda and who tend to jump on moving band wagons.. I hope you enjoy the "ride". 2004 will be here soon enough.

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Who's propaganda? CNN? NPR? NY Times? I'd say most on here are thinking individuals, not swayed by the media.

I try to avoid a moving anything. It's a good way to get run over.

Can't wait for 2004. Who's going to be the sacrificial lamb for the Dems?

AF

 

[350DRIVER]

Who's propaganda?

Nawww... ALL "factual" evidence has been presented, not a single doubt in anyones mind, that is WHY we have such an overwhelming and incredible support group from everyone in the international community and everyone is on our side. My bad..


-get real and wake up

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ps> the popular vote went to who last election (laughing rather hard)

 

[350DRIVER]

Who's going to be the sacrificial lamb for the Dems?

Democrat or Republican, I would hope the "next" winner can atleast-0 win the popular vote.

just a tad embarrasing eghh

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I don't think you need to worry about that one though. !! !!

 

[DC4boy]

350 co-pilot,

I think it stime you woke up!! Take a look at who is against us in your "international comunity". Germany, France, Canada, China etc. Socialism at it's best. Oh yeah, and Russia.
Ask one middle eastern arab country if they think what we're doing is right. Qatar, as radicaly Muslim as a country can get, is behind us.

Take your anti-American, conspiracy theroist, liberal propaganda elsewhere.

Civilized, Inteligent, level headed, human beings will prevail!!

Good Day, Dod Speed