Viva Le France!

[100LL... Again!]

And it's all Bush's fault. Please. SOO sorry about your upgrade. Bunch of us are out of work and STILL supporting Bush.

Grred is what got us here.

Bush is doing the best he can. I guess you think someone has a magic wand that can instantly fix 8 years of treason. America is paying for it's love affair with clinton. Ultimately, we will recover, because the right man is in the Oval Office.

 

[Tim47SIP]

Pulling out the red flag!

OK House, EXACTLY who are these high ranking individuals. I guess you have personal ties with these guys. Really, I would like to know.

 

[VivaZapata]

100LL... again,

Sorry pal. You'll have to do better than doubting that I'm a pilot. Where is the relavence here? You can't (not with any logical basis) lump me in one of your two categories. Perhaps this putting it in one neat little simple package makes it easier for you as it makes it so you don't have to think so much. i.e. You don't think that the USA has billions at stake as well? Or perhaps that we armed Iraq under Hussien in the 80's? He was just as much of a S.O.B. back then but since he hasn't been our S.O.B lately, we'll have to teach him a lesson. Did you think of that? hmm Nah, I doubt that you have. I almost looked past this and gave you the benefit of the doubt until I read some of your other posts. It seems your message board modus operandi is to sneak in name-calling as if that gives you credibility. "dufus"? LOL I think you should have left that tactic back at the playground.

You can continue to think that I am "woefully uninformed". I could suggest that you learn to put two and two together before you post but I won't. Do you see the profound stupidity in this "debate tactic"? Probably not.

 

[capt_zman]

Just a quick direct question for you:

Do you want Hussein out of power or do you think he poses no threat?

 

[surplus1]

France's position is based on nothing but pure financial interests.

You are quite probably correct. So is Russia's position. Now that we know that, would someone please tell me .....

What is the position of the US based upon?

Spare me the idea that it is based on "freedom" and give me something concrete. Spare me the idea that it is based on "disarming Sadam of WMD" (I pray that after the invasion we will actually find all the WMD that he allegedly has. If we don't, then I guess we'll have to "plant" them or someone is going to look awful stupid.) Spare me the idea that it is because he has "violated UN resolutions". Spare me the idea that it is because he is "a dictator". Spare me the idea that it is because we "want to help the people of Iraq."(Most Americans don't give a da*n about the people of Iraq, and a huge percentage don't even know where it is.)

Reading the rhetoric in this thread, it is clear that the majority support the war, but it is not at all clear (to me) WHY you support it. No one has articulated his/her reason for support as yet. (Unless of course you blindly follow the President like lemmings).

It is also clear that disliking the French is "politically correct" among the majority of writers. Why are they disliked ... because their President disagrees with our President on this issue?

Since you all set yourselves up as "defenders of freedom", why is it that you call fellow Americans that express their right to exercise freedom of speech by voicing an opinion, different from yours, "Anti-American"? This American is all for defending "freedom", but a lot of you make me wonder if you understand what freedom really is.

Most of you criticize the French as ungrateful for the help we gave them in WWII. Maybe they are ungrateful, I really don't know, but I doubt it. Being grateful for the help we gave them does not require blind acceptance of all future decisions of the US Government. Maybe in your minds it does? Does it?

ALL of you anti-French seem to forget that if if were not for the help of France, we Americans would have lost the revolutionary war with Great Britain. It was not George Washington that defeated Cornwallis. It was the French army/navy. We got that help, thanks primarily to two men. one of them French (Lafayete) and the other American ... no, not Washington, Benjamin Franklin ... whose superb diplomacy convinced the French king to aid the rebel revolutionaries. In the war of 1812 with Great Britain, were it not for the French, the fledgling US would have lost and been returned to the status of a British colony.

To the gentleman that mentioned the French defeat in Vietnam ... yes, they lost and that was a good thing. That was a revolution too, not very different from our own revolution against the English. By the way, we tried to take the place of the French by dividing Vietnam and colonizing the southern half. We lost too, after killing nearly 60,000 American young men, wounding a couple hundred thousand more, and dividing our own country. We even had our army kill American students, for exercising their right to free speech. We called them anti-American ... just like some of you are doing right now. We stopped the killing eventually, only because the American people did not support the US Government and they made it known.

While you ridicule the French for their position against an invasion of Iraq, no doubt you praise the British for their support. Well, it is true that we have the support of the British Prime Mininister (Mr. Blair). It is also true that 85% of the British people, do not support their own Prime minister or us. Why do you ignore that fact?

Some reference the French governments refusal to let us overyfly France when we chose to attack Libya. Those of you also praise the British for permitting our aircraft to depart from British bases and overfly the UK. Of course you are entitled to your opinons. However, you seem to forget that, in that case, the French people opposed their government and took our side. The British people also opposed their government and ours, and masses of them showed their opposition by burning the US flag in the streets of London, in living color. To my knowledge, the people of France have never burned the American flag in the streets of Paris. How come you French bashers never remember that?

Why are you not raising an outcry against the Germans? They don't support us either? How quick you seem to forget what the Germans did to all of Europe and to us.

Have we ever been at war with the French. Have they ever attacked us or killed our people at any time in history? It seems to me, that the only reason we love to hate the French is because they don't let us tell them what to do, and they are "arrogant" enough to see themselves as more than our equals, not militarily, but as a people. Are you sure it is the French that are arrogant or is it we who are arrogant because we think we're better than them? Objectively, it seems like we are very much alike, which is probably why we don't like them. They are too much like us, i.e., arrogant and self-centered.

Somebody, please explain to me (if you can) what is the difference between Sadaam Hussein and the Iraqi government ignoring UN resolutions for 12 years, and the Israeli government ignoring UN resolutions for 50 years? I would really like to know. It looks to me like this is not about who ignores UN resolutions. It's about who we like and who we do not like. We ourselves are about to "ignore the UN" because our President does not agree with its opinion. What's the difference?

By now, I'm sure that most of you have decided that I am just another darned liberal, left-wing, anti-war, SOB. After all I dare to question YOUR motives and that surely means that I am anti-American too. Right?

Well, you're full of it! I have worn my country's uniform with pride, and have fought in its wars myself ... also with pride. So did my brothers and brothers in law. So did my father and his father before him. So did my nephews. My son would have too, but he was the wrong age ... too young, and then too old.

I support our military personell and always have. They don't make wars and they never have. All they do is fight the wars created by politicians. They have always done so, with dignity and honor and courage. They deserve our praise, our trust and our respect. This is NOT their war, and neither were any of the others. If they are ordered to invade Iraq, I will support them in that too and pray for their success. So should every American.

However, do not confuse support for our military with support for our government's political decisions. The United States government, is not the same as the US military. Our military is but a tool of the politicians.

I supported WWII. I supported the Korean War. I supported the Gulf War. I support what we are doing in Afghanistan, and I support what we are doing in the Balkans. I did not support the Vietnam war, and I do not support this Bush war. Why, because we are doing this for all the wrong reasons, just like we did Vietnam for the wrong reasons, IMO.

Yes, Sadaam is an evil man and a dictator and I wish he was not in power. But, I am not willing to sacrifice the life of one young American to remove him. When we expelled him from Kuwait, that was proper and justified. Not because we were "defending Kuwaiti freedom". That's BS. There has never been any Kuwaiti freedom to defend and there is none now. I supported that because I believe that nations should adhere to the rule of law. No nation should be free to invade another nation, that has not attacked it, mereley because it "doesn't like its government or its leader". That concept applies to my nation as well. Might, does not make right.

When the US decides to invade another country because it doesn't like that country's dictator or government, that is little different from Hussein's invasion of Kuwait .... illigitimate.

If the government of Iraq is to be removed for violating UN resolutions, why don't we remove the government of Israel for doing the same thing? How do we justify the US invading another country, without UN sanction? What's so different about that. Is it OK just because we have the military power to do it?

Why do we call the Pakinistani dictator our ally, when we had to bribe him and his country with money to gain his support? Is his country a democracy or is he just another dictator paid to be on our side. Why are we offering our allies the Turks, billions of $$, to change the vote of their parliment, which does not at this time want our army in their country?

I respect everyone's right to support his war, but I also respect the right of those who do NOT support this war. There is nothing more "American" than freedom of expression. When you are willing to take freedom of desent away from those of us that disagree with you, then it is YOU that are anti-American.

 

[Boeingman]

You are quite probably correct. So is Russia's position. Now that we know that, would someone please tell me .....

What is the position of the US based upon?

How about non compliance with UN resolution 1441?

 

[350DRIVER]

There are many high ranking officials in the US military who are questioning Bush's true intentions for launching a war in Iraq. Bush should be focusing on the economy.

How true this point is. The main problem is that a complete lack of evidence is not helping "W" out nor is the current shape of our economy. I will reiterate the same point one more time, I am not anti-war BUT without any evidence it is extremely hard to suppport military action against a country that poses no threat to us. I do have the utmost of respect for our service men and women and can only pray and hope for their safe return IF "W" does proceed with this action which now looks like it will happen.


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[DIRT]

350Driver / Surplus1

Let's suppose we go into Iraq and find all sorts of chemical / biological weapons or what if Iraq uses these weapons against us during the possible upcoming invasion. Will that vindicate "W" and be the "smoking gun" the UN has been looking for all along?

 

[metrodriver]

I think SH has the right and will use them. He is the one being attacked! When you talk about WMD, why don't we attack Russia (and all the former Soviet states), France, Great Britain, China, India, Pakistan, Iran, North Korea, Israel. These countries all have nuclear weapons or the means to make them. Most of them probably have some biological / chemical stuff laying around also. Quite a few of these countries don't stick to UN resolutions.
I don't understand the Clinton administration bashing. some of you guys really walk around with republican blinders. Clinton wanted to take out SH, but there is one rule about war and that is you don't take out the leader. That's the only reason they didn't kill him in the early 90's.OBL has also been on the Clinton's to capture list, and nearly got captured. Clinton was also very instrumental in trying to get a peace solution in Israel, haven't heard much from dubya on that front lately. The Clinton administration did a lot of things somewhat secretly, the current administration has to post it's feelings for the world on the 6 o'clock news every day. Also, the budget surplus created during the Clinton administration and being used for our social security in a few years is gone, turned into a major deficit and when we are ready to get the check, it will not come because of lack of funds. Sure BC had his affairs with women, but so did a lot more folks in the white house or capitol hill.
It's time some of you start listening or watching to the BBC on PBS, gives you quite a broader view on things than FOX, ABC, NBC, CNN combined. And forget the newspapers with their quarterpage section dedicated to the 'world'.

 

[350DRIVER]

Let's suppose we go into Iraq and find all sorts of chemical / biological weapons or what if Iraq uses these weapons against us during the possible upcoming invasion.

Then you can laugh at me and say "I told you so" and I will resign myself to the fact that I was completely wrong and incorrect to "assume" what I have posted. How likely is it that a "smoking gun" will be found.?? I find it highly unlikely and improbable considering that weapon inspectors have been on the ground in Iraq for how long now(?) and have been able to prove (evidence) very little if anything exists. I highly doubt Iraq has been able to "hide" all of these weapons in such a short time period (my opinion). Regardless when we go to war (which seems is a given now) even IF "W" cannot prove that a smoking gun exists it will be a cop out and he will attempt to use other propaganda to prove his justification for this war. I truly hope that I am completely wrong and that my assumptions are also just as wrong because if we go and remove this guy from power and end up killing many of the innocent and we find no weapons of mass destruction then we are really not going to be making too many new friends nor is "W".

Will that vindicate "W" and be the "smoking gun" the UN has been looking for all along?

I just hope that there is much more evidence than has been made public. How much more evidence is out there.?? I think very little since it ALL would have been made PUBLIC by now since he needs (or has tried) to drum up support world wide for this war, that is why I have a feeling that very little if any evidence is being kept back. Show me the evidence and I am a believer that this war is a must and is completely justified, (evidence) is all I ask for as well as the many many millions of Americans that are against this attack.

The war is against terrorism and for American and World security.

Come on now.... I don't think too many are concerned with Iraqi tanks driving down main street in LA or NYC. How many other countries think the same.?? They pose absolutely no threat to our safety or security, look at the facts and show us how they are tied into the "terrorism" attacks that occured 9-11.. The bigger war "should" be on the economy which has went down hill since "W" took office, unemployment rates (record highs), etc, etc, etc, he is only using this as a diversionary tactic and buying time.

Now my only objection to war is that Congress needs to declare war.... And we should NEVER EVER consult the United Nations....

What a brilliant statement, fortunately you are in the minority on this one and it will never happen, enough said....

(I pray that after the invasion we will actually find all the WMD that he allegedly has. If we don't, then I guess we'll have to "plant" them or someone is going to look awful stupid.)

I hope the same however I find it somewhat unlikely that all these WMD are going to appear out of the blue during the attack especially after all this time has passed since UN security inspectors have been on the ground IN Iraq and have found pretty much nothing.- hope I am wrong though since "w" is going to look extremely stupid to many other countries.


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