Van ride with another crew, interesting comment...

[The Truth]

And the defense presents its case...

Fly2Scuba, you're bashing Mesa for "underbidding" and "undercutting" the industry, and go far enough to link payrates as your defense. Okay, I took a look at the payrates for Mesa, and compared them to where you work, TSA (according to your profile). Here's what I got: (and I'll list only for the first 4 years, as I assume that's about the tenure of a regional pilot nowadays)

MESA (JET) FO:
1st year: $21
2nd year: $28
3rd year: $31
4th year: $33

MESA CA (200/700/900)
1st year: $52/$55/$59
2nd year: $54/$57/$61
3rd year: $55/$58/$63
4th year: $57/$60/$65

And now, compare that with TSA:

TSA (JET) FO:
1st year: $22
2nd year: $25
3rd year: $32
4th year: $33

TSA (JET) CA:
1st year: $55
2nd year: $57
3rd year: $59
4th year: $60

Now, lets break this down into simple, direct comparisons:

- A 4th year FO at TSA makes EXACTLY the same $33 per hour as a 4th year Mesa FO.

- A 4th year CA at TSA makes an enormous $3.00 per hour more than a 4th year Mesa Captain (or, if that Mesa CA flies the CRJ 700, then the TSA CA makes EXACTLY the same as a Mesa CA)

And here's the difference in per diem: Mesa: $1.21, TSA: $1.40 A pilot at TSA makes 19 cents more per hour on per diem than a Mesa pilot.

And you bring up days off: 10 minimum for a Mesa pilot (28-day bid cycle) and 11 minimum for a TSA lineholder. A TSA pilot gets ONE more day off than a Mesa pilot.

So, there you have it...proof without a reasonable doubt that...well...what does that prove? I thought I would notice a glaring, massive discrepency between a TSA pilot and a Mesa pilot? Fly2Scuba, looks like TSA isn't exactly "raising the bar" either, huh? Oh, and don't worry, I'm not a Mesa pilot...I'm just here to call out those that claim any individual pilot group is "bringing down the industry". Evidence suggests otherwise...you ALL are.

I can't help but to laugh...hyesterically...at some of you regional clowns blaming each other for "lowering the bar" and "causing destruction of the pilot profession as we know it". If you all don't define the word hypocrite, then I don't know what does. Carry on children...this gets more funny by the minute!!

 

["Luke"]

I think the more important figure that applies (not so much now as before 9/11) is how fast upgrade time is. Pay comparisons don't mean anything when you upgrade to CA pay sooner and start collecting PIC (Aircraft Commander) time, making yourself marketable to other possibilities.

What is upgrade time like at the regionals?

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

(and I'll list only for the first 4 years, as I assume that's about the tenure of a regional pilot nowadays)

Ahhh... No. I highly doubt 4 years is the tenure of most regional pilots. People have got to wake up... The industry has changed and now these jobs are going to be much longer term. Until pilots get smart and start truly fighting for better compensation and work rules we will continue to have crummy quality of life.

1000 PIC is no longer a magic ticket out to a major. Fight for the job you have now, not just the job you might have a few years down the line.

 

[millhouse21]

Fly2Scuba, you're bashing Mesa for "underbidding" and "undercutting" the industry, and go far enough to link payrates as your defense. Okay, I took a look at the payrates for Mesa, and compared them to where you work, TSA (according to your profile). Here's what I got: (and I'll list only for the first 4 years, as I assume that's about the tenure of a regional pilot nowadays)

MESA (JET) FO:
1st year: $21
2nd year: $28
3rd year: $31
4th year: $33

MESA CA (200/700/900)
1st year: $52/$55/$59
2nd year: $54/$57/$61
3rd year: $55/$58/$63
4th year: $57/$60/$65

And now, compare that with TSA:

TSA (JET) FO:
1st year: $22
2nd year: $25
3rd year: $32
4th year: $33

TSA (JET) CA:
1st year: $55
2nd year: $57
3rd year: $59
4th year: $60

Now, lets break this down into simple, direct comparisons:

- A 4th year FO at TSA makes EXACTLY the same $33 per hour as a 4th year Mesa FO.

- A 4th year CA at TSA makes an enormous $3.00 per hour more than a 4th year Mesa Captain (or, if that Mesa CA flies the CRJ 700, then the TSA CA makes EXACTLY the same as a Mesa CA)

And here's the difference in per diem: Mesa: $1.21, TSA: $1.40 A pilot at TSA makes 19 cents more per hour on per diem than a Mesa pilot.

And you bring up days off: 10 minimum for a Mesa pilot (28-day bid cycle) and 11 minimum for a TSA lineholder. A TSA pilot gets ONE more day off than a Mesa pilot.

So, there you have it...proof without a reasonable doubt that...well...what does that prove? I thought I would notice a glaring, massive discrepency between a TSA pilot and a Mesa pilot? Fly2Scuba, looks like TSA isn't exactly "raising the bar" either, huh? Oh, and don't worry, I'm not a Mesa pilot...I'm just here to call out those that claim any individual pilot group is "bringing down the industry". Evidence suggests otherwise...you ALL are.

I can't help but to laugh...hyesterically...at some of you regional clowns blaming each other for "lowering the bar" and "causing destruction of the pilot profession as we know it". If you all don't define the word hypocrite, then I don't know what does. Carry on children...this gets more funny by the minute!!

Don't forget that Trans States gets block or better on a leg by leg basis.........and that contract was signed in 2000. We are eagerly awaiting the chance to enter section six negotiations in August.

I'm not bashing Mesa here. That would be extremely difficult since I know first hand how much it sucks to work for a really sucky company. I really feel for you guys if you have to compare pay rates with Trans States. We suck and we know it.

 

[The Truth]

ooops!

My apologies to the Trans States guys and gals...I quickly looked at Fly2Scuba's post, and saw "TSA"...which appears to just be a dig at TSA (security). However, I'm bored out of my gore in a meeting right now, so Fly2Scuba, if you could please post which regional you work for, I would be glad to provide a comparison. The same end result will occur, but go ahead anyways...

Oh yeah, during a break in our meeting, I asked how much my business partner made in his 4th year as a CPA..."around 92" (thousands, that is). And the same question for my marketing manager at 4 years (granted, she was out of grad school)..."I think a little over 85 or so". Just an example of what people make in other professions at that 4-year mark I was using.

...Now, go ahead and continue to flight and quarrel over who's making $2-10 per hour more at the regionals!!

 

[threegreen]

You are a tool for asking the mesa guy about rates during the van ride.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I think the more important figure that applies (not so much now as before 9/11) is how fast upgrade time is. Pay comparisons don't mean anything when you upgrade to CA pay sooner and start collecting PIC (Aircraft Commander) time, making yourself marketable to other possibilities.

What is upgrade time like at the regionals?

That seems to be everyone's justification for crappy pay at some of these airlines. "Well, its a quick upgrade, so the low pay scales aren't a big deal". Sorry, I don't buy that. Upgrade time is a constantly changing variable, pay scales are not (or shouldn't be anyway). Slice it however you want, but crappy hard pay rates simply cannot be justified because the upgrade is quicker. If your pay sucks, your pay sucks..I don't care how long you sat in the right seat. Someday those quick upgrades may come to a grinding hault...then what are you left with? A stagnant seniority list and below standard pay.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

Fly2Scuba, you're bashing Mesa for "underbidding" and "undercutting" the industry, and go far enough to link payrates as your defense. Okay, I took a look at the payrates for Mesa, and compared them to where you work, TSA (according to your profile). Here's what I got: (and I'll list only for the first 4 years, as I assume that's about the tenure of a regional pilot nowadays)

MESA (JET) FO:
1st year: $21
2nd year: $28
3rd year: $31
4th year: $33

MESA CA (200/700/900)
1st year: $52/$55/$59
2nd year: $54/$57/$61
3rd year: $55/$58/$63
4th year: $57/$60/$65

And now, compare that with TSA:

TSA (JET) FO:
1st year: $22
2nd year: $25
3rd year: $32
4th year: $33

TSA (JET) CA:
1st year: $55
2nd year: $57
3rd year: $59
4th year: $60

Now, lets break this down into simple, direct comparisons:

- A 4th year FO at TSA makes EXACTLY the same $33 per hour as a 4th year Mesa FO.

- A 4th year CA at TSA makes an enormous $3.00 per hour more than a 4th year Mesa Captain (or, if that Mesa CA flies the CRJ 700, then the TSA CA makes EXACTLY the same as a Mesa CA)

And here's the difference in per diem: Mesa: $1.21, TSA: $1.40 A pilot at TSA makes 19 cents more per hour on per diem than a Mesa pilot.

And you bring up days off: 10 minimum for a Mesa pilot (28-day bid cycle) and 11 minimum for a TSA lineholder. A TSA pilot gets ONE more day off than a Mesa pilot.

So, there you have it...proof without a reasonable doubt that...well...what does that prove? I thought I would notice a glaring, massive discrepency between a TSA pilot and a Mesa pilot? Fly2Scuba, looks like TSA isn't exactly "raising the bar" either, huh? Oh, and don't worry, I'm not a Mesa pilot...I'm just here to call out those that claim any individual pilot group is "bringing down the industry". Evidence suggests otherwise...you ALL are.

I can't help but to laugh...hyesterically...at some of you regional clowns blaming each other for "lowering the bar" and "causing destruction of the pilot profession as we know it". If you all don't define the word hypocrite, then I don't know what does. Carry on children...this gets more funny by the minute!!

You're more moronic then I thought. I fly for Expressjet. Idiot.

 

[iahawkeye]

Mesa wonder boy,

Why dont you compare a 5th year CRJ 900 CA at Mesa with a 5th year CA at XJT. Pay alone should make you feel pathetic, not to mention 401k, profit sharing, work rules, quality of life, trip trading and scheduling ability. Show me "the truth". Ill tell you the truth, people like you are the reason this "career" has been swirling down the toliet bowl.

 

[hotwing]

!@#$ wha!

Yeah that's right, jump on the bandwagon! Oh, I think you had "Gold Seal" in your profile too. What did you change it before you posted dickcheese? :angryfire

I only fly the XR, I'm just badass like that.:erm:

I am driving the damned wagon. Dude, lay off the KEWR sewere water... It is making you a bitter person! Ya need to get back down to TX quick so that you will quit posting useless info...


HW

and yes,

CFI, CFII, MEII, SES, IGI, Paramedic, Firefighter, ACLS, AMLS, PALS, PPPC, BTLS-Advanced, Hazmat Tech, High Angle Tech, Confined Space Tech, Trench Rescue Tech, ...

There, will you quit crying now!

It is all in fun my bra!

Later!

 

[threegreen]

how about we get some industry unity here and stop name calling. everyone knows all the regionals are the same and until you realize it the race downward will continue!

 

[capt. megadeth]

Yeah, I'm sure there are no tools at other airlines, just at Mesa.

You can hate Mesa but I'll tell you every time it is our Fricking CEO, not us that is the problem...

Maybe someday you'll take credit for the stupid things that happen at your company?

I just hope I run into that fuk (crap....I was going to stop swearing on the boards but with this idiot, I can't help myself) in a dark alley. I will take every one of his stupid motorcycles (I read in the USA Today that he has over 15) and run him over with them. Stupid fuk. Gawd, I hate that dude.

 

[ATLplt]

Paramedic, Firefighter, ACLS, AMLS, PALS, PPPC, BTLS-Advanced, Hazmat Tech, High Angle Tech, Confined Space Tech, Trench Rescue Tech, ...

Good to see another ex-hose dragger. I have a feeling there's quite a few in the industry. Ahh, the high angle rope stuff. Nothing like hanging upside down from a water tower 100' off the ground.

No swift water tech?? You're slackin'...

 

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

I am driving the danged wagon. Dude, lay off the KEWR sewere water... It is making you a bitter person! Ya need to get back down to TX quick so that you will quit posting useless info...


HW

and yes,

CFI, CFII, MEII, SES, IGI, Paramedic, Firefighter, ACLS, AMLS, PALS, PPPC, BTLS-Advanced, Hazmat Tech, High Angle Tech, Confined Space Tech, Trench Rescue Tech, ...

There, will you quit crying now!

It is all in fun my bra!

Later!

:laugh: :beer: You're right this place is making me bitter, and I spend way too much time posting useless BS on here!

 

[The Truth]

children, children! Let's control oursleves, shall we? AGAIN, I don't work for Mesa...never have, never will. To that point, I'll never work at a regional again...left that life behind several years ago to go back to a profession that I actually MAKE money (and lots of it) and am actually a "professional". Imagine that! I'm just here to expose everyone bashing others as what they are...hypocrites.

I'm off to the west coast for another round of meetings, so I wish I could partake in more festivities on the board. Fly2Scuba, I guess you just don't get it. But I have a feeling you're not that bright, so I suppose that's a given. So you work for ExpressJet, huh? Congratulations. My gawsh...I've taken a quick look at the comparisons on the site you linked, and you all are far and away the leaders in "raising the bar" in the industry (snicker!). I mean, you must just be ROLLING in the cash, huh! I really have a lot of respect for you, "bar raiser"...you're totally different from the Mesa pilots. You cool guy, you!

Be back in a few days...don't miss me!

 

[Fly2Scuba]

children, children! Let's control oursleves, shall we? AGAIN, I don't work for Mesa...never have, never will. To that point, I'll never work at a regional again...left that life behind several years ago to go back to a profession that I actually MAKE money (and lots of it) and am actually a "professional". Imagine that! I'm just here to expose everyone bashing others as what they are...hypocrites.

I'm off to the west coast for another round of meetings, so I wish I could partake in more festivities on the board. Fly2Scuba, I guess you just don't get it. But I have a feeling you're not that bright, so I suppose that's a given. So you work for ExpressJet, huh? Congratulations. My gawsh...I've taken a quick look at the comparisons on the site you linked, and you all are far and away the leaders in "raising the bar" in the industry (snicker!). I mean, you must just be ROLLING in the cash, huh! I really have a lot of respect for you, "bar raiser"...you're totally different from the Mesa pilots. You cool guy, you!

Be back in a few days...don't miss me!

When you get back, you're still probably going to be an unknowledgable idiot. The difference in work rules are huge. Besides that, I won't go around all happy and defensive about ExpressJet either like some Mesa tools who have far worse overall contract rules. We have issues that pop up here and there and Express isn't the perfect place to work by any means. My particular major problem with Mesa pilots is that
1) they actually pretend like everthing is honkey dorey because they get to fly around in larger jets even if at terrible work rules. You think under those contract conditions, an intelligent person would be discussing all the time how and when to change those in the future instead of defending it.

2) they have this attitude of I'm not going to worry about it because I'll get my time and move on to another airline ASAP. Even greater problem then underbidding other regionals by a wide margin, is that now you have a situation where less and less A320 and 737 major carrier jobs are available because a 190 is being flown at significantly less. Don't be a moron.

 

[chromeshawn]

Strike

You can hate Mesa but I'll tell you every time it is our Fricking CEO, not us that is the problem...

Maybe someday you'll take credit for the stupid things that happen at your company?

If I don't see a strike vote, and a contract at least as good as industry average on your upcoming contract negotiations, MESA pilots shall forever be dirt in my book.

I was talking to one of your guys in a crew van last week. He said, we can't ask for that much, they'll never give it to us. Industry average is not even close to a possibility for MESA. Johnny O, or whoever it is won't give it to us. With attitudes like that, he is right, you will continue to lower the status quo.

The company will not go out of business to save a few cruddy dollars. Stand up for at least the average. Strike if you have to! The company will come through at the last minute to prevent it, and you can have exactly what you deserve.

So stop crying "Poor little me," and do something about it next year when the contract talks come up.

Git er dun!

 

[Spinplate]

Mesa wonder boy,

Why dont you compare a 5th year CRJ 900 CA at Mesa with a 5th year CA at XJT. Pay alone should make you feel pathetic, not to mention 401k, profit sharing, work rules, quality of life, trip trading and scheduling ability. Show me "the truth". Ill tell you the truth, people like you are the reason this "career" has been swirling down the toliet bowl.

5th year Capt.??? Thats a career regional pilot who is old and on the verge of retiring. If you dont move on by then.......well you know what Im getting at. I heard the upgrade time is getting a little better at XJET, but it would take like 10 years to become a 5th year Capt. there. We all want to move on to bigger and better things, that we can all agree on. Its miserable for most of us so why cant we just get past ourselves and just do the damm job we get paid so little to do!! We all seem to be cool and likeable when your trying to get a FREE ride home on the competitions flights,......and then go home and talk $hit about it. F%*K that you pansies!! Most of the people Ive met out there have been cool as hell....prob the same people that come on here and bash everyone behind the screen. Well F**K YOU! Little whiny F*gs. JUST STFU already. Thats it!

 

[PCL_128]

5th year Capt.??? Thats a career regional pilot who is old and on the verge of retiring. If you dont move on by then.......well you know what Im getting at. I heard the upgrade time is getting a little better at XJET, but it would take like 10 years to become a 5th year Capt.

Fifth year Capt means you've been at the company for 5 years, not as a Capt for 5 years. The only airline I know that bases pay off of years in seat is Commutair. Everyone else bases payrates on YOS with the company.

 

[NEDude]

The only airline I know that bases pay off of years in seat is Commutair.

Oh sure, drag us into this.