USAPA wants $'s for marksman........

[Occam's Razor]

Again....what do you think ALPA would be doing right now for CA Langenhahn?

Guess!

That's right...guess.

While you're at it...guess Wednesday's PowerBall numbers for me.

BTW....if all it took to lose your job as an FFDO was to take your weapon out of its holster in flight, a whole lot of pilots would be unemployed.

1. That's not all it took...and you know it! Have a little intellectual integrity here. The good captain violated the SOP, and shot a hole through an aircraft he was the pilot-in-command of.
2. If it was simply "taking his gun out of the holster", we wouldn't be having this discussion.
3. Good! Fire every pilot that takes his/her gun out of the holster...and in 2-weeks, it'd stop. Hopefully, we're done shooting holes in our airplanes by making up our own procedures and rules. I know for a fact CA Langenhahn has!

There is a clear difference between a crime and mistake. In this case, a crime led to a mistake. Don't ignore the first and focus on the second. This isn't missing a crossing restriction or blowing through an altitude. He discharged a gun in flight.

 

[Ocity]

Again....what do you think ALPA would be doing right now for CA Langenhahn?

The exact same thing that ASAPA is doing. Asking the membership to help support his family financially. There would be support out there, but again some people think they are above making a mistake that can cost them their career.

What is USAPA doing for the furloughees to be at both east and west?

The exact same thing as ALPA....nothing. Unless you include company paid health insurance. And this came from the membership, not an account in Herndon.

For all you know, He could have been an ardent ALPA supporter....in fact I believe he was involved very much in ALPA work several years back. If memory serves, he was on a committee for several years.

Again, it is a personal choice to help or not.

BTW....if all it took to lose your job as an FFDO was to take your weapon out of its holster in flight, a whole lot of pilots would be unemployed.

A350

F. this guy. Somebody needs to collect the carts at Costco.

Not a single, solitary dime for this ****************************** bag. compliments of his new Scaaaaa...fake. union. Usapa.

 

[Contract]

I heard this guy was 55 or so. How do you liquidate your retirement accounts in just 6 months?

 

[m80drvr]

Again....what do you think ALPA would be doing right now for CA Langenhahn?

The exact same thing that ASAPA is doing. Asking the membership to help support his family financially. There would be support out there, but again some people think they are above making a mistake that can cost them their career.

What is USAPA doing for the furloughees to be at both east and west?

The exact same thing as ALPA....nothing. Unless you include company paid health insurance. And this came from the membership, not an account in Herndon.

For all you know, He could have been an ardent ALPA supporter....in fact I believe he was involved very much in ALPA work several years back. If memory serves, he was on a committee for several years.

Again, it is a personal choice to help or not.

BTW....if all it took to lose your job as an FFDO was to take your weapon out of its holster in flight, a whole lot of pilots would be unemployed.

A350

Wow I don't want to fly on east metal if you are seeing pilot pull their guns out of their holsters. I have NEVER seen that and NEVER heard it happen until now.

Thats a pretty large blanket statement. I suggest you report any pilot that is playing with his firearm outside of it's holster.

PS. In fact you can be kicked out of the FFDO program for removing you firearm without justification. It's called SOPs. If you happen to be an ffdo I suggest you re read them.

 

[A350]

Occam:

There isn't a single "guess" in my post, so I am wondering where you got that.

The point is how the weapon discharged....there is a cause and an effect. Had he violated the SOP and not had a discharge, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Not being an FFDO, I am not privvy to certain parts of the SOP and don't think discussing them here is a good idea.

So since you are so up on this, please explain how it happened.

A350

 

[nwaredtail]

Occam:

There isn't a single "guess" in my post, so I am wondering where you got that.

The point is how the weapon discharged....there is a cause and an effect. Had he violated the SOP and not had a discharge, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Not being an FFDO, I am not privvy to certain parts of the SOP and don't think discussing them here is a good idea.

So since you are so up on this, please explain how it happened.

A350

Occam, if I may......

It happened because he DIDN'T FOLLOW SOP, NUMEROUS TIMES.

No doubt in my mind that if this were an AWA pilot, USAPA would do jack for him so I also find the request for $ a bit repugnant.

 

[vetrider]

Occam, if I may......

It happened because he DIDN'T FOLLOW SOP, NUMEROUS TIMES.

No doubt in my mind that if this were an AWA pilot, USAPA would do jack for him so I also find the request for $ a bit repugnant.

I agree, and its actually even worse than that. Those same folks pleading for benevolence for an east pilot are attempting to financially ruin 18 individual awa pilots by suing them for such 'crimes' as web board posts. A federal judge dismissed the suit with predjudice, and they are appealing the ruling. Repugnant indeed.

 

[denny]

I have flown with numerous FFDO pilots and not once have I ever seen one take their gun out of the holster on the ground once underway much less in flight.

I see them secure the gun once parked at the gate after setting the brakes at the gate and I see them preparing the gun for use once the cockpit door is closed but before pushback from the gate.

Never have I seen one handle the gun at any other time.

This yahoo at US Airways needs to be gone. We don't need to waste the good name of United States airline pilots defending or helping this guy. You have to draw the line somewhere. Not everyone is worthy of saving.

 

[A350]

Denny/NWA redtail:

You are of course entitled to that opinion....however, the union can't make that distinction without violating its duty to represent.

Whether it is ALPA or USAPA, they don't have a choice.

Pilots violate SOP every day....whether it is intentional or not. The only reason this guy is in the hot water he is is because something bad happened as a result.

A350

 

[Occam's Razor]

Whether it is ALPA or USAPA, they don't have a choice.

Concur!

Unions have an obligation to defend their members...even their willfully negligent members.

I don't think that's the issue here. I appears USAPA is grieving the termination.

Issues:

1. Was the termination justified?
2. Should we cough up $$ to help him?

Correct answers:

1. Yes.
2. Voluntarily...sure.

Pilots violate SOP every day....whether it is intentional or not. The only reason this guy is in the hot water he is is because something bad happened as a result.

Ya think?

It's called "risk management".

He failed. Spectacularly.

He chose to invent his own procedure(s) for handling his weapon, and the dangerous consequences prevented by compliance with the SOP he signed, occurred.

A design flaw didn't make the gun discharge. His violation of the SOP did.

 

[A350]

Occam:

I don't agree that this in and of itself is a slam dunk termination. I have seen many a pilot who deserved it and was fired only to be reinstated for a reason that had little to do with the fact that his termination wasn't deserved or reasonable.

Second point...again, many a pilot has done this and worse and while terminated, was helped by his peers because most realize they don't want their career judged by one moment in time.

I stand by my earlier comment.....we all have had days we wish we could forget and if you haven't you probably will. So it is better to learn and help than to learn, criticize, and kick someone when they are down.

A350

 

[Poahi]

Occam:

I don't agree that this in and of itself is a slam dunk termination.
A350

Let's change the facts just a bit without going in to too many specifics. Let's say the gun discharged when it was being secured back in it's proper place after the completion of the flight on the ground when the pilot is supposed to store the weapon. What should happen then? Would that be classified as an accident? Should he be 'fired' in that case?

 

[Turtle21]

wonder if they would do this for a west side guy????

Before USAPA was even voted in as the new union, USAPA called for donations to help out a west pilot that was in need.

 

[Turtle21]

What would happen to a FAM or cop if they fired their guns off in the plane?

A hole in the side of the plane would likely result.. they use lead bullets too.:laugh:

 

[Captzaahlie]

Let's change the facts just a bit without going in to too many specifics. Let's say the gun discharged when it was being secured back in it's proper place after the completion of the flight on the ground when the pilot is supposed to store the weapon. What should happen then? Would that be classified as an accident? Should he be 'fired' in that case?

Some how i think that could be forgiven easier.....
i don't know the sop's other from what i see in a daily routine (and i don't think they need to be spelled out in a public forum), but that would be more of an accident than being classified as being stupid with a firearm (in flight)..... just my honest opinion.