USAPA wants $'s for marksman........

[PHXFLYR]

Caveman.

It isn't. But if you feel that strongly about it, feel free to donate. As a matter of fact,here's the address you can send your check to:

"Captain" James Langenhahn Fund
C/O "Captain" Elwood Menear (a piece of work in his own right)
PO Box 62
Hummelston PA 17036
Checks payable to "Usapa"
..... and hope that it gets to it's intended recipient.
Go get 'em Marine !!


PHXFLYR

 

[waveflyer]

Now that we've figured out that anyone can donate or not....

HOW ABOUT THAT FURLOUGH FUND?

SEEMS LIKE A MORE IMPORTANT ISSUE TO BE TALKING ABOUT.

 

[Dan Roman]

Kind of pathetic regardless of how you feel about this guy. Fact is, if they were still in ALPA he would have all the resources he needs at his disposal. Sad that as a USAPA pilot they have to resort to panhandling.

 

[Poahi]

While I sympathize with his situation, I have to ask, if they only need to get him through the end of the year and he's worked for Airways 24 years, where did all the money go?

 

[MK82Man]

Caveman --

I can’t speak for every dude out West, but I’m certain almost all of us are empathetic to Capt Jim Langenhahn’s plight. But it stops there. We feel for the guy, but most of us strongly believe that he jeopardized the reputation of our airline by his conduct. So we are sympathetic to his plight and feel for him, but that is about it. At some point personal responsibility sets in.

Now USAPA asks us to help him. What is the USAPA doing to help the 175 mainline AWA guys being furloughed this Fall? – ZERO. What are they doing to help the 125 “new-hire” furloughs out East? – ZERO. So you see, it re-enforces the pattern of behavior that USAPA exists only to help the one’s they want to help. Old time East pilots. None of the East Coast furloughee recalls (those who were on the street in May 05 when the merger was announced) will be furloughed this Fall. USAPA is ok with that because it keeps old legacy US Air pilots employed while they attrit the legacy AWA pilots. If USAPA hadn’t run the USA Today Ad claiming the company was abusing Captain’s Authority (so laughable) they would have had $100K to help out Capt Jim. And now USAPA asks me to cough up money to help Capt Jim when I’m being furloughed this Fall, while some East Coast guy who didn’t have a job at the company when the merger was announced, gets to keep his job – YGTBSM.

Next week, USAPA will begin Section 29 proceedings against over 1000 AWA pilots who have refused to pay dues to USAPA. There hasn’t been a single road show by USAPA to either West domicile since they were elected the CBA in April … and they want our help? I’ll tell you what they want; they want our money so they can further disenfranchise us. Capt Langenhahn is caught in the middle. As long as USAPA exists and the East won’t live up to the binding arbitration they agreed to, the house will be divided and USAPA can best decide where to allocate the scarce resources. Fundraisers for a guy who broke the rules and endangered the safety of his passengers and the reputation of the airline will be poorly received out West. The chickens are indeed coming home to roost and it is sad that so many East pilots were blinded by rage against ALPA and voted for USAPA. Unfortunately there will be many more pilots and families damaged as the months drag on. Good luck to Capt Jim. The sooner the East pilots wake up to the nightmare USAPA has created for all of us, the better. Me and 299 other soon to be furloughed dudes would to get back to work in 2009.

 

[Colonel Savage]

"Next week, USAPA will begin Section 29 proceedings against over 1000 AWA pilots who have refused to pay dues to USAPA."

Why only 1000? Did 800 pay their dues?

 

[eatme]

Politics aside, anyone proficient with a gun care to chime in on this. From what I read about this incident, it sounds like negligence, pure and simple. If this is FFDO SOP, you can have it.

 

[Herkdrv]

Its guys like this that waste the union funds because of their stupidity or their actions. Been at enough airlines to see enough of these kind of pilots do the dumbest sh!t and get caught and expect the union to save their a$$e$. I fully stand shoulder to shoulder with my union brothers and sisters, but there is nothing that can be written in any contract that can support stupidity and or lack of common sense.

Oh and by the way.... while doing the recurrent FFDO course they briefed us on exactly what this guy did. He's lucky hes not in jail for endangering the lives of his passengers and or his crew. If you ask me he got off easy......

Can you provide further details?

 

[PCL_128]

CA Langenhan is not personally resonsible for USAPA.

Actually, if he voted for uSAPa, as 90% of the Eastholes did, then he's most certainly responsible for his own lack of adequate representation at the moment. I hope he sees the irony.

 

[m80drvr]

Politics aside, anyone proficient with a gun care to chime in on this. From what I read about this incident, it sounds like negligence, pure and simple. If this is FFDO SOP, you can have it.

Yup

I shoot more than most. I shoot some local competitions in my area. Nd's (negligent discharges) occur....alot. (not in competitions though. They are very structured and safe)Do some searching on the web. Hell, Utube has videos of them. BUT........ to blame any ND on the firearm or the holster is just plain stupid. The FFDO program has SOPs JUST LIKE THE AIRLINES. If you follow the SOPs you will NOT shoot an innocent airbus. If you make up your own procedures than you will, at some point, shoot an airplane or a person.

We have all heard of the term "get home-itus", If you rush, and are careless of a firearm you will have an ND. Hopefully you don't shoot a person.

Again I shoot alot. I'm not an expert but I am experienced in the shooting sports, and gun handling.


Everyone screws up in life, it's humn nature, but to screw up with a firearm can be deadly.

MD

 

[Networ-King]

[/b]Can you provide further details?

In a nutshell....

This captain had his holster unsnapped and the gun was pulled out of the holster slightly resting on the tray table. FFDO procedures basically say that the only time you unsnap and remove the weapon out of the holster in a cockpit is when you have a threat. THATS IT.... he then supposedly put the lock in the holster while it was unsnapped (at around 8000 ft) and then he pushed it in and tried to snap it. AAAANNNNDDD there you have yourself a nice hole in the side of the airplane. Imagine if the gun was pointed the other way on the tray table....

And we're suppose to feel sorry for this guy and "donate" money to a 24 year USA captain? Ha....

Enjoy the unemployment line with the guys you're going to screw in a couple of months buddy....

 

[Fly-n-hi]

In a nutshell....

This captain had his holster unsnapped and the gun was pulled out of the holster slightly resting on the tray table. FFDO procedures basically say that the only time you unsnap and remove the weapon out of the holster in a cockpit is when you have a threat. THATS IT.... he then supposedly put the lock in the holster while it was unsnapped (at around 8000 ft) and then he pushed it in and tried to snap it. AAAANNNNDDD there you have yourself a nice hole in the side of the airplane. Imagine if the gun was pointed the other way on the tray table....

And we're suppose to feel sorry for this guy and "donate" money to a 24 year USA captain? Ha....

Enjoy the unemployment line with the guys you're going to screw in a couple of months buddy....

Actually, he had it stowed up behind the joystick...or whatever you Airbus guys call it. Apparently there's a space right next to the "joystick" where the gun (in the holster) fit really snug. His logic was that he could just reach up and pull the gun out quickly if he needed it.

Everything else you said was right.



Bottom line is that he chose not to follow SOPs and he fired his gun. Its that simple. Should he lose his job? I don't know. I do know that he took his chances and now he's paying the price.

No one can say that this was an accident or that "this could happen to anyone." If he had followed procedure he'd still be flying now.

 

[Networ-King]

Actually, he had it stowed up behind the joystick...or whatever you Airbus guys call it. Apparently there's a space right next to the "joystick" where the gun (in the holster) fit really snug. His logic was that he could just reach up and pull the gun out quickly if he needed it.

Everything else you said was right.



Bottom line is that he chose not to follow SOPs and he fired his gun. Its that simple. Should he lose his job? I don't know. I do know that he took his chances and now he's paying the price.

No one can say that this was an accident or that "this could happen to anyone." If he had followed procedure he'd still be flying now.

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He should burn for shooting an innocent "fifi" . And its a side stick....

Seriously ....

The FAM told us he had it resting on the tray table pointing to the left side of the aircraft and had it unsnapped and pulled out a little, so that he could get to it and "draw" it faster. Either way ......

 

[Jolly Roger]

I am not an FFDO, but this is also the story I have heard second hand around the patch. We all know folks who like to invent their own whacko procedures, it's too bad Barney Fife's was a bit more deadly than most...

 

[Fly-n-hi]

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He should burn for shooting an innocent "fifi" . And its a side stick....

Seriously ....

The FAM told us he had it resting on the tray table pointing to the left side of the aircraft and had it unsnapped and pulled out a little, so that he could get to it and "draw" it faster. Either way ......

I see what you're saying. He had it on the tray table when it went off. Ok. I do know that he was using some little space near the "sidestick" to hold it in flight. At least that's what our guys told us.

If he had just kept it on his belt, though...

 

[Regul8r]

Everyone screws up in life, it's humn nature, but to screw up with a firearm can be deadly.

MD

And it can be be even worse to screw up with a plane full of people. You're right though, Sh*t happens. There is a contingent of pilots on here who would have you believe they are totally immune to making mistakes. Therefore, "Screw 'im! Dumb bastard gets what he deserves."

I hope those same morons feel that tough when they f*ck up themselves.

 

[scoreboardII]

Stuff didn't just "happen", this clown set himself up by violating multiple federal guidelines. He gets a swift boot to the butt.

 

[Fly-n-hi]

It isn't like they were flying into some busy airport and got a clearance screwed up. The guy blatently broke the rules. It wasn't an accident but rather it was negligence. To be honest I'm indifferent as to whether or not he gets his job back.

I'll admit that I'd like to know if he was a die-hard USAPA supporter. Knowing that will definitely affect how much support I'm willing to give him. Yeah, I know. I'm gonna have a bunch of East guys give a hard time for saying that. But anyone with half a brain knows that's exactly how the East guys would be reacting.

What would happen to a FAM or cop if they fired their guns off in the plane?

 

[Networ-King]

And it can be be even worse to screw up with a plane full of people. You're right though, Sh*t happens. There is a contingent of pilots on here who would have you believe they are totally immune to making mistakes. Therefore, "Screw 'im! Dumb bastard gets what he deserves."

I hope those same morons feel that tough when they f*ck up themselves.

You wouldn't be saying that if the gun was pointed in the other way when it went off and shot the FO..... Sh!t does happen to everyone and we all make mistakes, but this was stupidity. We're suppose to carry the weapon (wear it on the belt) WITH THE GUN ALWAYS SNAPPED. Do you get it? NEVER EVER SHOULD IT BE UNSNAPPED, unless you have a threat in the cockpit. THATS IT..... Like someone said earlier.... this wasn't an accident, it was stupidity and negligence. And if you wanna call me a moron for thinking this guy should be fired then fine, but I'd bet my paycheck that you wouldn't think the same way if that bullet caused a death in that "accident"......

Net

 

[ironspud]

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