Usapa has to go.

[TWA Dude]

I see, and we are going to pay how?????

Dunno. We can't guarantee justice will be served. All we can do is continue to seek it. That "pesky vote" thing you brag about may become a moot point if circumstances far greater than your spite vote take over.

 

[Bringupthebird]

East pilots have all the power in this mess. They control when we move forward and only then.

Why do the west pilots and those on the east who are sick of paying for USAPA allow this? I agree that if those pilots choose to sit idly by and allow a minority to advance their agenda on our dime, then we deserve to suffer. USAPA cannot be reformed, only replaced, regardless of the time required to do so. The upcoming elections will likely replace one corrupt union leader with another, because the line pilots of US just don't care to take control of their own destiny.

The GPWS is blaring "TERRAIN, TERRAIN" and they can't be bothered to even click off the autopilot.

 

[Carl S.]

West pilots are ready to move on, with the SLI behind us and on to a new contract. The majority of East pilots do not want to move on and want a second bite at the apple, so West pilots must sit tight and wait till the East pilots are done banging their heads into the wall and are ready to move forward. Why sweat what you can not change, we just watch the USAPA clown show go on and on.

 

[Bringupthebird]

The admission to a second rate clown show is about $6000 a year out of my pocket, that's why. A real union would provide value for that money. And the sad part is, we could change it, but no one is willing to try.

 

[ableone]

I was picking up the release in CLT this morning when an east CA, who was non-reving in back, came up to me, introduced himself and said:

"I am an AOL contributor."

"Most of the rhetoric you hear from out here is from a very vocal, very loud, minority. These idiots have cost all of us a tremendous amount of money and you should no there is a sizable contingent of us who are done with this."

It went back and forth and I opined that I expected little to happen (contract wise) until we were involved in another merger. This is where he said something that really shocked me; "Maybe in the next merger we can put some of us in the east on the bottom of the combined list where they belong."

I have heard about these types of conversations taking place but this is the first one I have had.

 

[PHXFLYR]

And you believed him ? :erm:

PHXFLYR

 

[Taco Rocket]

I was picking up the release in CLT this morning when an east CA, who was non-reving in back, came up to me, introduced himself and said:

"I am an AOL contributor."

"Most of the rhetoric you hear from out here is from a very vocal, very loud, minority. These idiots have cost all of us a tremendous amount of money and you should no there is a sizable contingent of us who are done with this."

It went back and forth and I opined that I expected little to happen (contract wise) until we were involved in another merger. This is where he said something that really shocked me; "Maybe in the next merger we can put some of us in the east on the bottom of the combined list where they belong."

I have heard about these types of conversations taking place but this is the first one I have had.

Hopefully a big box of tissues was nearby so you could hide the lotion and wipe up the mess before your wife caught you!

 

[ableone]

Hopefully a big box of tissues was nearby so you could hide the lotion and wipe up the mess before your wife caught you!

Typical classy response from an east scab.

I was surprised that he wanted to staple your type but on reflection it sounds like an excellent idea.

BTW. There are more than a few east pilots who are regular AOL contributors.

 

[Taco Rocket]

BTW. There are more than a few east pilots who are regular AOL contributors.

I noticed there are several contribution levels to AOL: gold, silver, bronze, etc. I think the lowest was "red?"

Anyway if this is the most important contribution that one could fund to further his career, wouldn't it be "worth it" to make a sizable contribution?

Since you are privy to the donation list, why don't you tell us how many guys donated at the maximum versus minimum levels? I'll assume it's not that many relative to the group.

 

[Carl S.]

West pilots do not really need any money from anyone else, I think we can take care of our own. East pilots need to decide to poop or get off the potty. LOA 93 is here till you guys get your act together and want to move on, only you can change your future, the past is done!!!!

 

[Taco Rocket]

West pilots do not really need any money from anyone else,

Able is boasting about east AOL financial participation and here you declare the west doesn't want the money? Which is it? Shall we post a notice in the Philly crew room regretfully informing guys that the avalanche of their contributions are not needed?

 

[Bringupthebird]

Maybe USAPA doesn't need the money. Post that in the Philthy crew room.

 

[cactusboy53]

I noticed there are several contribution levels to AOL: gold, silver, bronze, etc. I think the lowest was "red?"

Anyway if this is the most important contribution that one could fund to further his career, wouldn't it be "worth it" to make a sizable contribution?

Since you are privy to the donation list, why don't you tell us how many guys donated at the maximum versus minimum levels? I'll assume it's not that many relative to the group.

The level of contribution to Leonidas is a relationship between Leonidas and the contributor. The levels are Titanium ($3000), Gold ($1500), Silver ($1000), and Bronze ($500). Red is just the color of one's eyes when one lands on the East coast at 0530 AM!

Your assumptions are incorrect. I will not disclose the numbers that EXCEED the Titanium level, but it's a lot. Every time USAPA experiences a loss or El Presidente opens his pie hole and spews nonsense (quite often), gives rise to further contributions. We also get donations from pilots at other airlines, and from parents of our pilots.

You need not worry about our liquid state. It's just fine. The union's finances are another thing all together.

 

[Taco Rocket]

The level of contribution to Leonidas is a relationship between Leonidas and the contributor. The levels are Titanium ($3000), Gold ($1500), Silver ($1000), and Bronze ($500). Red is just the color of one's eyes when one lands on the East coast at 0530 AM!

Your assumptions are incorrect. I will not disclose the numbers that EXCEED the Titanium level, but it's a lot. Every time USAPA experiences a loss or El Presidente opens his pie hole and spews nonsense (quite often), gives rise to further contributions. We also get donations from pilots at other airlines, and from parents of our pilots.

You need not worry about our liquid state. It's just fine. The union's finances are another thing all together.

I'm not worried about your finances: I am simply interested if your contributors are putting their money where there mouth is. If mom wants to donate, that's fine.

 

[Carl S.]

Taco, you either kick in some cash or move on. Are you looking for us to beg you or disclose all our numbers if you do? Ask USAPA where all our dues money is going ( FPL whore fest). I trust that AOL money is being spent right, no oversight needed by me.

 

[Taco Rocket]

Actually Carl,

I'm done.

I've got the information I needed as we move into Season 6 of "This Dysfunctional Merger" (or shall we return to a season one theme: Merger Versus acquisition: "Show me the Check!"?)

Season 5 closed out with the injunction and the non-work action work action. I'm still reviewing the director's cut and deleted scenes.

In Season 6 we'll get a new verdict, an inevitable appeal, and more delay and obfuscation (before you start on this one allow me to concede it will be from the east).

I now understand this "we're going to get it done NOW!" theme from you guys: you have the most to lose should a merger or asset transfer happen. For you it is imperative the last deal closes before the next.

But the east still holds the delay card. And I doubt there is enough money to buy these guys off, at least for another 3-4-5 years. And a buy off also assumes management wants a new contract -- also not a given. Even if the money were there you guys are so angry at the thought of an east pilot "winning" anything that you would face backlash from the west at the thought of spending most of any new contract money on the east (which is a given because the east is so far behind.) I'm sure someone has a moronic, unworkable plan to engineer more benefits to the west.

"Win" or "lose" it's probably still in the east's best interests to draw it out -- for both junior and senior guys. I come to this conclusion in the absence of new facts, and in the face of tired arguments. So I'm done. CB thank you for being the most civil.

 

[Carl S.]

Taco,why so angry? LOA 93 for life got you down? You hold all the cards, we West pilots are along for the ride. Delay all you want, hope for a merger/break up all want. Just do not come here looking for a way off LOA 93 and then say I am taking my ball and going home. The East pilot group is so fractured it is funny. The resignation letters just get better and better. Just stop whinning about LOA 93 when it is you who controls your future. Thanks for making the company profitable on your low wages, we need this during lean times!!!

 

[charlie2]

Taco,why so angry? LOA 93 for life got you down? You hold all the cards, we West pilots are along for the ride. Delay all you want, hope for a merger/break up all want. Just do not come here looking for a way off LOA 93 and then say I am taking my ball and going home. The East pilot group is so fractured it is funny. The resignation letters just get better and better. Just stop whinning about LOA 93 when it is you who controls your future. Thanks for making the company profitable on your low wages, we need this during lean times!!!

Hi Carl,

Glad you finally figured out you bought a lemon..a fractured one at that. I always get the feeling you want to take credit for buying us but not take any blame for buying us. Face it you didn't take it for a test ride nor get an expert opinion on our condition so we think you screwed up.

When you bought us did you use money that was earned because of your low wages at AWA? If they are not low then why all the fuss about a new contract?

 

[waveflyer]

I'm not with either group, and with AA in bk, profits up industry wide- but still downward pressure on wages- I have no problem calling the usapa stand stupid-
Kill this dumb "us against the world" mentality- and get a better contract.
You went through the process, made your arguments, and got a list- implement it so you can make some coin- and get some QOL improvements-
We know you have the heart to keep fighting- the question is WHY are YOU?

 

[cactusboy53]

Hi Carl,

Glad you finally figured out you bought a lemon..a fractured one at that. I always get the feeling you want to take credit for buying us but not take any blame for buying us. Face it you didn't take it for a test ride nor get an expert opinion on our condition so we think you screwed up.

When you bought us did you use money that was earned because of your low wages at AWA? If they are not low then why all the fuss about a new contract?

I'll answer for myself: Yes my money was used. I had 1/4 of my 401K in AWA stock. By the time the announcement was made I couldn't jump ship. The stock price for the new company opened at $19.50. It SAILED up to $60 a share. I jumped ship (like many of the large investors) North of $50.00 (better to be lucky vs. smart sometimes).

BTW, you may have forgotten the following events (after 9/11): AWA was the FIRST MAJOR AIRLINE to bring back ALL furloughed pilots. AWA was the FIRST MAJOR AIRLINE to start hiring off the streets (we hired a bunch of AAA furloughees, and a couple that just plain QUIT AAA for the cesspool that had become). AWA was the FIRST MAJOR AIRLINE to negotiate a post-9/11 contract (and we did that in less than 3 years), and frankly at the time (2004) the wages weren't too bad.

AAA had/has some value, but not as much as the USAPIAN faithful seem to think they do. Had the USAPIAN faithful not taken us on this ride, we would have had a new and better contract for all of us, AND now be negotiating a SECOND post-merger contract. The ONLY reason that we are in this crap is because one group fails to accept a final & binding seniority integration and the smaller group is FORCED to defend our position (while helping you fellas pay for the attack on us).

Have a Merry Christmas, Charlie. Maybe the new year will bring an end to this nonsense, it is the season of miracles after all.