USair

[eaglesview]

So it's okay that the East Steals the West jobs then. Why? "United" pilot...

What stealing?? Last I checked the lists were still seperate. Your management
has decided that 175 jobs worth of flying are being reduced in the west (LAS) and 125 from east.

 

[Ocity]

What stealing?? Last I checked the lists were still seperate. Your management
has decided that 175 jobs worth of flying are being reduced in the west (LAS) and 125 from east.

See post #112 and remember the fact that the 99 hires on the East were ALL on furlough when the TA was drafted and brought exactly ZERO jobs to the table.


Dumping ALPA had nothing to do with "protecting" jobs USAPA has everything to do with stealing them. The gainfully employed 175 on the West is exhibit A.

 

[MCDU]

With the nic in place, almost all furloughs would have been East pilots, even though most of the flying is being cut on west routes. The east has already cut half its fleet. There is not much to cut on the East.

So with the nic in place, Westies would have displaced Eastholes and thus taking away east jobs.

2005 hires displacing 1989 hires in their jobs that they brought to the table. Min fleet and block hours are east protections after going from almost 6000 pilots to little over 3400.
There are no fences to protect any east flying with the ridicilous nic award.

By the way, almost 150 pilots have left the East since the last seniority posting.

Marty

 

[Ocity]

Here's another USCABA move...in the interest of "ALL" pilots.

Remember the six eastinfections that forfeited their east seniority because they wanted to be based in PHX? Well, the TA is clear that they are junior to all west pilots when they came over here. The 175 west furloughs will most certainly hit them.

What did USCABA do? They conveniently removed them from the west list showing the affected furloughees to be six MORE west pilots and not the east guys. As if those dumbasses wouldn't think anybody would notice.

Sure, no DFR here.

 

[TWA Dude]

With the nic in place, almost all furloughs would have been East pilots, even though most of the flying is being cut on west routes.

Not accurate. If the Nicolau list were in place it would mean we have a joint contract and combined operations. In other words, there wouldn't be any more East or West.

There is not much to cut on the East.

If USAPA is dumb enough to enter contract negotiations in this environment you'll see a demand for relief on the TA fleet minimums. What's USAPA willing to concede? Hint: West jobs.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Guys,
The NIC decision may be crap but that is immaterial. It may not be fair but that is immaterial. The fact is that situations such as this are being decided in a way that breaks from past history. The fact is it is a legal decision that cannot be overcome at least with the efforts of the US Airways east pilots thus far.

I think the Nic decision was the only way to isolate the previous circumstances that put the east pilots where they were. The widebody fence that was part of the decision was all that the east should have hoped for, but they gloss over it's value.

Once you get to two airlines with roughly the same type of fleet, the relative seniority integration method is the fence that protects the west pilots from the circumstances that put the east pilots where they were, regardless of the number of years they have worked. DOH forces the west to suffer for years of past missteps by the east, and in this case pay for it with their jobs.

The east has dragged it's feet for over a year and they have enjoyed the effects of a de facto fencing the east for long enough. Now is the time for Parker to come out unequivocally and state that USAPA shouldn't bother wasting it's time with a new seniority list and that for integration purposes, Nic will be used. After that, they are welcome to try a seniority list re-ordering if they think they can get it to pass. Anything less is acting as a willing accomplice to the pilot group tearing the airline apart.

 

[eaglesview]

Not accurate. If the Nicolau list were in place it would mean we have a joint contract and combined operations. In other words, there wouldn't be any more East or West.

I think that line is just semantics. Just because they would not have been called “east or west,” the pilots to be furloughed would have all been east coast with the nic in place. For the record I am not referring to the new hires I am talking about the returning pilots.

 

[TWA Dude]

I think that line is just semantics.

So when PIT was closed as a base should its pilots have been furloughed? Of course not since PIT was just one base in the company. After we have combined operations we'll be one company so it isn't just semantics.

 

[eaglesview]

So when PIT was closed as a base should its pilots have been furloughed? Of course not since PIT was just one base in the company. After we have combined operations we'll be one company so it isn't just semantics.

There you have it, reality is you are not one company and I will be surprised if you become one under the nic.

 

[TWA Dude]

There you have it, reality is you are not one company and I will be surprised if you become one under the nic.

Your surprise not withstanding the Transition Agreement spells it out explicitly. I know you guys aren't so good at upholding agreements so I guess we'll see.

BTW, some of us are receiving a booklet from CLT entitled, "Notice to Agency Fee Payers". Under the section called Challenge Procedures, section J it states "The arbitrator's decision on challenges to the validity of the verified "germane" percentage shall be final and binding". Since we all know now that "final and binding" is meaningly to USAPA we can not worry about challenging the Agency Fees. You guys are great!

 

[johnnyb]

So when PIT was closed as a base should its pilots have been furloughed?

When PIT was closed the block hours were redistributed in the other hubs.

This in contrast to the Vegas pullback where the time is being eliminated.

 

[johnnyb]

See post #112 and remember the fact that the 99 hires on the East were ALL on furlough when the TA was drafted and brought exactly ZERO jobs to the table.

And today - before the merger is complete - 175 West pilots bring Zero jobs to the table as well.

 

[TWA Dude]

When PIT was closed the block hours were redistributed in the other hubs.

Oh, really? So you're telling me there was no overall shrinkage of USAirwasy flying when 3/4 of the flying in PIT disappeared? I call BS on that.

 

[UALjan15]

And today - before the merger is complete - 175 West pilots bring Zero jobs to the table as well.

Huh?? How do you figure? Just because the company can now migrate flying to the cheap seats out east does not mean that I didn't bring a job to the table. I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Ocity]

And today - before the merger is complete - 175 West pilots bring Zero jobs to the table as well.

It's called the "snapshot". It's too late. That picture was taken in 05. I'll let you figure out what that means.

What you're suggesting is meaningless.

 

[eaglesview]

When PIT was closed the block hours were redistributed in the other hubs.

This in contrast to the Vegas pullback where the time is being eliminated.

That is a good point. The snapshot in 05 is becoming more and more meaningless.

 

[TWA Dude]

The snapshot in 05 is becoming more and more meaningless.

Of course it is. It's called a 'snapshot', not 'An Accurate Prediction of Everything That Will Happen in the Future'.