USAir Furlough Recall: My Decision

[bravodude]

actually, they did.... when Rollin King was running it, it was called "Air Southwest" using prop aircraft charters around TX. I know, that was before the "real" Southwest started with 737s. I'm just bored...

73

Do you know if there are any pictures out there on the web.

 

[Rabble]

heh... the General finds out that he is the only one who thinks he is a god. Funny.

 

[General Lee]

heh... the General finds out that he is the only one who thinks he is a god. Funny.

Nah, I actually read the posts and can tell what they are actually saying. Your post, for example, shows that you are inept and a follower.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FurloughedAgain]

FWIW:
This week I got in contact with a few people from my newhire class. It's only a half dozen people or so, but what is interesting is that I have not found 1 person who is accepting recall from this Jan 99 class.

3 pilots are at FedEx
1 pilot is an assistant chief pilot at Skywest
2 pilots are at AirTran
1 NetJets
3 Corporate including myself

I wonder how many people they will find to attend the Sept 17th class?

 

[3ds]

FA,

Good post. And good luck. You certainly provided lots of food for thought to those of us who are just looking to start down this road.

 

[boxjockey]

FurloughedAgain,

First of all, congratulations on your decision. I think any time you make a decision to spend more time with your family, you can never be wrong. I admittedly am still young, and have been very fortunate in my aviation career so far, and at 27 I arrived at my goal airline from the time I started flying almost 10 years ago. I get to fly the 744 to destinations such as Rome, Paris, London, etc. I get to see all of the cutest little hello-kitty flight attendants you could shake a stick at. I am paid well for what I do. But the most important thing for me in this job is I get to spend almost 20 days a month at home with the ones I love. I made a list when I started flying of the things that were most important to me in a job. The top three for me were time off, stability, and pay. I don't care what type of airplane I fly. I don't care where I go. These are the three most important things to me, and it sounds like they are the same to you. I have a few family friends from USAir, and I can tell you that if you went back there, it is highly unlikely that you would ever reach what you are looking for. We have several ex-USAir guys at my current company, some with as many as 23 years service there. You made the right decision my friend. Enjoy your family, relax and don't think about your job when your not there. Just remember that a job is only a means, but should never be an end in itself. Good luck and fly safe.

box

 

[gcsass]

I just called K.C. today to tell her I will not be attending the AUG 27th class. A sad day because I still vividly remember getting the call from Inez and the first time I actually flew the plane. I thought I had fulfilled all of my childhood dreams. Things change, and in some cases there is no going back. For me, US Air is one of those things. I wish all of you the best of luck (that includes the HP guys/gals as well)!

 

[whymeworry?]

Very well-thought letter. John Prater needs to read this. I believe JPs heart is in the right place, even though he is being influenced by SOME of the wrong people.

You are absolutely right about ALPA eating it's young. I remember back in 1997, when our regional airline got a TA, the pay rates for Captains jumped by $24 while the pay rate for FOs went up 53 CENTS! Of course, I, and others, objected vehemently to this gross injustice and you know what our MEC leaders told us? "The unions always take care of the senior guys, that's the way it is. Some day you'll get yours too." Can you believe that? This from an elected union official said to me in public.

We worked feverishly to get that TA voted down, which we succeeded at. You can't imagine the whining I heard out of these very individuals the day the vote results were announced.

In the end, despite their arrogance, we acheived an industry leading contract chocked full of work rules and fairly weighted pay-increases for all. We, the junior pilots, showed our senior pilots and MEC leaders what unity was all about. Imagine that.

I remember during one road show, when a fellow FO and I commented on that first TA needing a livable wage for FOs should they ever get stuck in that position (we were already holding captian slots on the bid but we felt compelled to fight for what was right). The negotiating chairman's repsonse was that our airline has never had FOs longer than 2 years... they alway upgraded to Captain. That didn't matter, we wanted to see FOs protected if they were forced to sit right seat for whatever reason. We eventually acheived a livable wage for longer-term FOs. That was in 1997. When 9/11 happened and Captains were forced back into the right seat, they sure were glad the longevity scales covered 6-yr FOs, even if they were pissed about the downgrade.

ALPA needs to wake up, get overhauled. Junior pilots are our future. It's like saving the planet. Global warming aint going to effect me. I'm doing my part to get green to help my kids. Same with flying. If we don't uphold repsect to our junior pilots, we can't blame them for leaving to whore themselves out to the likes of SkyBus or Virgin... or for voting to ax our retirements should they ever be faced with that decision.

The senior pilots of America ought to hold their unity heads in shame. They were given a chance to lead during this past downturn and all they did was fail at every corner. It's time for the junior pilots to take over the unions and distrubute the wealth evenly.

UAL, NW, U, CAL all abysmal failures at union leadership.

 

[PCL_128]

whymeworry, you're confusing "ALPA" with your local leadership. Sounds like you had problems with the people that the pilots elected at your airline. There are ways to deal with that: recall, Article VIII hearings for extreme cases, etc... Blaming ALPA National isn't the answer. Any union is only as good as the local volunteers.

 

[whymeworry?]

One more thing. I applaud you on your decision. Now don't ever look back.

I spent a few years flying corporate. You know what? I enjoyed it more than I do airline flying. The spontaniety of flying to some exotic locale, the mixing with the rich (fab hotels, getting invited on yachts, etc) all have some benefits. But the real secret is in the loyalty. If you get on with good corporate outfit, and you're a good employee, you will be rewarded for that loyalty with a kind of mutual respect not shown in the airline business. And your skills are portable. Keep yourself out of debt and with plenty of cash in the bank so that you can vote with your feet if your employer ever fks with you. Knowing this, they will honor their word to keep you. Airline mgmts don't care about honoring their word because they know you can't leave. You are married to the airline. Your skills are not portable inside the US, unless you want to start over again at the bottom of another seniority list.

Years ago the idea of going corporate vs. airline would have been unheardof. These days, with the advent of PBS and CBAs gutted of work rules, corporate is certainly the better option... assuming you get on with the right one (there are plenty of dirt-bag outfits out there).

The rules of the game are changing. There is a higher value-added premimum being justified with private air travel as the rich simply won't deal with the TSA or arrogant over-worked airline employees. This only serves to advance the growth of corporate/ private air travel.

I know a lot of airline guys will think it's crazy to want to fly corporate... but believe me, its not nearly as bad as most of us are dealing with these days.
Unlike a lot of the tools on here, I could care less what I fly, it's all about lifestyle. And the corporate one isn't a bad route at all.

Wishing you well in your endevours.

 

[whymeworry?]

whymeworry, you're confusing "ALPA" with your local leadership. Sounds like you had problems with the people that the pilots elected at your airline. There are ways to deal with that: recall, Article VIII hearings for extreme cases, etc... Blaming ALPA National isn't the answer. Any union is only as good as the local volunteers.

Oh really? While I agree with you on the idea that, "all politics is local"... I also inject, "sht rolls downhill". ALPA Nat'l failed at the opportunity to LEAD during it's darkest hours. Think my local leadership is only to blame? Tell that to the junior pilots of UAL, U, and NW. Their leadership shafted the entire bottom half of the list merely because they were afraid of mgmt's threat to close up shop. Then look at DAL, despite mgmts very public claims to liquidate DAL, Lee Moak, their MEC Chair, told the judge, and indeed th public, the pilots of Delta Airlines will not fly without a contract.... no matter what. You know what? They got a fairly decent contract considering being at the 11th hour of a 1113c process. Furhter, they did NOT shaft their junior pilot to acheive this. Furloughees even kept longevity. THAT, my friend, is leadership.

Unfortunately, ALPA Nat'l had little to do with it.

Where I blame Nat'l is that when an MEC goes astray and eats it's young, Nat'l needs to step in and remind them what unity and UNIONISM is all about. If that mean calling the company's bluff then so be it. That's the game were in.

ALPA Nat'l needs to train and re-train the MECs and LECs twice a year that taking care of all should be the cause, not just the senior end of the list.

 

[PCL_128]

Oh really? While I agree with you on the idea that, "all politics is local"... I also inject, "sht rolls downhill". ALPA Nat'l failed at the opportunity to LEAD during it's darkest hours. Think my local leadership is only to blame? Tell that to the junior pilots of UAL, U, and NW. Their leadership shafted the entire bottom half of the list merely because they were afraid of mgmt's threat to close up shop. Then look at DAL, despite mgmts very public claims to liquidate DAL, Lee Moak, their MEC Chair, told the judge, and indeed th public, the pilots of Delta Airlines will not fly without a contract.... no matter what. You know what? They got a fairly decent contract considering being at the 11th hour of a 1113c process. Furhter, they did NOT shaft their junior pilot to acheive this. Furloughees even kept longevity. THAT, my friend, is leadership.

You're just proving my point for me. Good local leadership (and you won't find a better leader than Captain Moak) is what it's all about. ALPA doesn't run MECs and LECs. ALPA provides the resources for those MECs and LECs to run themselves in a manner that they see fit.

Where I blame Nat'l is that when an MEC goes astray and eats it's young, Nat'l needs to step in and remind them what unity and UNIONISM is all about. If that mean calling the company's bluff then so be it. That's the game were in.

How exactly is ALPA supposed to "step in?" Pilots don't want the national organization to micro-manage them, but then they complain when the national organization doesn't micro-manage them!!! Sorry, but pilots can't have it both ways. The only thing you can do is hold your leadership accountable. If your local leaders don't deliver and don't represent you, then get rid of them.

ALPA Nat'l needs to train and re-train the MECs and LECs twice a year that taking care of all should be the cause, not just the senior end of the list.

You can't train people to behave ethically. If local leaders aren't ethical in how they deal with issues, then all the training in the world won't change that. It all comes down to having a pilot group that elects good leaders that have a strong sense of ethics. The problem is that pilots don't even bother to pay attention to who's running for office, so they end up with leaders that don't properly represent them. If Rez and I have said it once, we've said it a thousand times: it all comes down to an informed and involved rank-and-file membership. If you don't have that, then you don't have anything of value.

 

[GuppyWN]

One thing we all forget or need to realize.

We hire on with an airline because we dreamed of the career. We get hired because corporate needs an ass in the seat.

Gup

 

[152SIC]

I don't think all of us "dreamed" of flying for airlines. As a matter of fact I think a lot of us got involved in aviation because we enjoyed "flying." It has nothing to do regarding prestige, ego or image for most of us. It does involve QOL, QOL and QOL.

 

[Goose Egg]

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