USAir Furlough Recall: My Decision

[FurloughedAgain]

152SIC. I think you may be mistaken when you say, "It has nothing to do regarding prestige, ego or image for most of us."

There are still a lot of folks who fit that mold.

 

[152SIC]

Perhaps there is.

However, when you throw a family into the mix your priorities change. And hopefully they change in a good way.

Flying for a company which does not have your families needs set as a top priority is a non-starter in my book.

I think you have thought this through well and made the right decision.

Thanks for sharing, it has been truly enlightening. I am making the same decision, and all the "good" posts have been invaluable.

 

[FLYLOW22]

FWIW:
This week I got in contact with a few people from my newhire class. It's only a half dozen people or so, but what is interesting is that I have not found 1 person who is accepting recall from this Jan 99 class.

3 pilots are at FedEx
1 pilot is an assistant chief pilot at Skywest
2 pilots are at AirTran
1 NetJets
3 Corporate including myself

I wonder how many people they will find to attend the Sept 17th class?

There are 3 of us here (NJA) that I know of from 6/99.

1 FredEx
1 Corp
2 AWA/US West
2 JetBlue
2 AirTran

This was NOT a tough decision if one isolates the feelings out of the decision and uses facts.

Pay? Not settled in one contract yet.
Working conditions? Same.
Seniority list? Up in te air.

Debate what you will about what I just wrote (if it makes you feel good) but the job "offer" extended by US to the furloughees is half-ass at best filled with more than it's fair share of holes, "what if's" and "just maybe's". I and many others can't bare to expose ourselves and our families to more "maybe's".

If we were in our 20's flying BE1900s for $12/hr., US would look good. We're all in our 30s-40s now with responsibilities.

The memories of Inez calling to make the offer, the 1st landing in the A320 in LAX (greaser), the countless number of friendships... these are all good things.

One thing is for certain, friendships are the one thing that tends to last the longest in this crazy industry... perhaps the only thing.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

You seem angry Flylow. Beware of the dark side. Anger...fear...aggression. The dark side of the Force are they.

 

[cezzna]

Nothing is uglier than a man who wraps his identity in his career. When I get out of an airplane and go home, I don't want to think about flying. Why are so many pilots so myopic? All of this consternation about what the ultimate goal is, where it is, how much it pays. All of my real goals in life have nothing to do with my "career" as a pilot. If the biggest thing in life is finally getting to fly a ______, then you're as shallow as a puddle.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Flying for a company which does not have your families needs set as a top priority is a non-starter in my book.

LOL! Yeah... forget shareholder value, return on equity, free cash flow and all those other pesky corporate things... we here at "XYZ Airlines" are only concerned with the needs our our employees' families! :laugh:

BBB

 

[vetrider]

This feminist, Oprah type psychobabble has gone to far. My dad flew four day trips, commuted, etc. yet somehow I knew he was my dad and he loved us.

I don't have any kids, and with all the modern bs about what constitutes family I'm glad I don't. The world is going to hell in a handbasket, we're fast turning into a society of sissies.

Men the world over need to regain custody of their nads.

 

[tomgoodman]

Career opportunity

The world is going to hell in a handbasket....

Ummm....what's the payscale and upgrade time for handbaskets?

 

[Big Beer Belly]

This feminism, Oprah type psychobabble has gone to far. My dad flew four day trips, commuted, etc. yet somehow I knew he was my dad and he loved us.

... The world is going to hell in a handbasket, we're fast turning into a society of sissies.

I agree. If I read another post about not working because "it takes me away from my family", or "I'm scared to fly internationally because I'm so far from home and all layovers (Paris, London, Hong Kong, Singapore, Vienna, Frankfurt, Madrid, etc...) are boring without my family, or night flying is tiring... I think I'm going to hurl.

Bend over, look between your legs and no doubt some of you will see nothing! :laugh:

BBB

 

[152SIC]

LOL! Yeah... forget shareholder value, return on equity, free cash flow and all those other pesky corporate things... we here at "XYZ Airlines" are only concerned with the needs our our employees' families! :laugh:

BBB

Hahaha, yeah. As someone with a masters in economic theory I can understand your satire. What I was alluding to was the corporate culture. Many companies don't concern themselves with their employees wellbeing.

As an employee that should be cause for concern.

 

[cezzna]

I take that back, nothing uglier than narcissism wrapped in machismo.

 

[fngswa]

No patience

I read the post, then the few replies and skipped to the last page knowing 20% of the posts had something to say and 80% were BS-

I want to bandwagon with the guy that said something to the effect of "putting a bet on a bad horse". I was lucky enough to join the industry after 9/11 with a great company (SWA). Why go with them, not because of their 10K or bottom line, they were the ones that called. Luckily, i feel like it is the perfect fit for me.
The guys i like talking too are the captains that made a choice BEFORE 9/11 to stay at SWA or leave for the "greener" fields of the Majors. When FO's at Majors were almost making more than them. They were the smart ones. The one that didn't look at pilots W-2's but the companies bottom line. They all say they knew it was a solid company and enjoyed the culture/environment.

So you guys going back after being put on the street after 4/5 years what are they looking at? The paycheck or the bottom line. Is it the great culture of your former airline or you enjoy working with the one you just acquired? Have they changed the inertia of your pre-9/11 company and gone a completely new direction? How well will this horse do in the next race?

I know SWA is doing well now but it is a dog eat dog business. I know that what i'm doing can change at the drop of a hat. Or some dude that grew up in a hut halfway around the world can ruin my career. I've got a solid backup plan if this doesn't go. Continuing to get an education outside of the business when that day comes (assume the worst hope for the best). It is still a great career with the right company.

Great post FA

 

[Big Beer Belly]

I take that back, nothing uglier than narcissism wrapped in machismo.

"It's true... people do judge you by the words you use..."

Say... after you've mastered it... may (expresses desire versus "can" which expresses ability) I borrow your "Verbal Advantage" thingie?

BBB

 

[Hpilot]

I read the post, then the few replies and skipped to the last page knowing 20% of the posts had something to say and 80% were BS-

I want to bandwagon with the guy that said something to the effect of "putting a bet on a bad horse". I was lucky enough to join the industry after 9/11 with a great company (SWA). Why go with them, not because of their 10K or bottom line, they were the ones that called. Luckily, i feel like it is the perfect fit for me.
The guys i like talking too are the captains that made a choice BEFORE 9/11 to stay at SWA or leave for the "greener" fields of the Majors. When FO's at Majors were almost making more than them. They were the smart ones. The one that didn't look at pilots W-2's but the companies bottom line. They all say they knew it was a solid company and enjoyed the culture/environment.

So you guys going back after being put on the street after 4/5 years what are they looking at? The paycheck or the bottom line. Is it the great culture of your former airline or you enjoy working with the one you just acquired? Have they changed the inertia of your pre-9/11 company and gone a completely new direction? How well will this horse do in the next race?

I know SWA is doing well now but it is a dog eat dog business. I know that what i'm doing can change at the drop of a hat. Or some dude that grew up in a hut halfway around the world can ruin my career. I've got a solid backup plan if this doesn't go. Continuing to get an education outside of the business when that day comes (assume the worst hope for the best). It is still a great career with the right company.

Great post FA

Very good post. I too went to the first major airline that called me for an interview. Unfortunately it wasn't Southwest. I am also furthering my work outside of aviation so I can one day leave. The culture at AmWest is already eroding. Just recently our awesome chief pilots office was told(by ex-East pilot/management A-hole) they are too nice to the pilots. WTF? Unfortunately I think this career has gotten to the point where if you can't get on with Southwest, FedEx or UPS it just isn't worth it.

 

[FLYLOW22]

You seem angry Flylow. Beware of the dark side. Anger...fear...aggression. The dark side of the Force are they.

Fear leads to anger, anger leads to stress, stress leads to doobies, and doobies lead to twinkies." - Yoda


I think they are smoking Doobies in Tempe.

 

[Green]

Very good post. I too went to the first major airline that called me for an interview. Unfortunately it wasn't Southwest. I am also furthering my work outside of aviation so I can one day leave. The culture at AmWest is already eroding. Just recently our awesome chief pilots office was told(by ex-East pilot/management A-hole) they are too nice to the pilots. WTF? Unfortunately I think this career has gotten to the point where if you can't get on with Southwest, FedEx or UPS it just isn't worth it.

where did you hear this? Details????

 

[FurloughedAgain]

where did you hear this? Details????

Yes. By all means turn this thread into yet ANOTHER pissing contest between West and East. That's just good reading!

[/sarcasm]

 

[cezzna]

This feminist, Oprah type psychobabble has gone to far. My dad flew four day trips, commuted, etc. yet somehow I knew he was my dad and he loved us.

I don't have any kids, and with all the modern bs about what constitutes family I'm glad I don't. The world is going to hell in a handbasket, we're fast turning into a society of sissies.

Men the world over need to regain custody of their nads.

Be carful looking for those nads, you just might find out you're a d*ck instead.

Just kidding, lighten up francis

 

[vetrider]

Be carful looking for those nads, you just might find out you're a d*ck instead.

Just kidding, lighten up francis

I already know I'm a d*ck, or at least can be sometimes. You can take what I posted with a grain of salt, it was just an empty bloviation, of course typed words sometimes come across very literally.

In any case, I'll shut up. Carry on.

 

[DougTriMtrDrvr]

Couldn't have said better

Outstanding Post! To the point.

ALPA turns out to be in conflict of interest with itself. I've concluded a union can not properly represent a mainline operation and the regionals.

My data 50/18/11/bottom looming. Meaning- 50 years old, furloughed 11 of past 18 years, stapled to the bottom.

As to Big Beer Belly - we didn't all have a vast choice as to the carriers offering opportunities and in 1989 the future wasn't so clear, in 1999 maybe more so but again sometimes you have to go with the deal that is offered rather than hope for something better down the road. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Upgrade time and retirements were such that, in 1999, US Airways looked to be the best airline for compensation, work rules, upgrade time, etc.

Didn't seem like much of a gamble to me at the time.

 

[Iflewjetz]

I remember when I was hired in 99, Metrojet was still working and I would probably upgrade there in 5 years. I did the senority predictor tool on Chips place in 99 and I was going to be the #1 pilot my last 3 years. Now with the Nicolau award, I was stapled to the bottom and probably 150 or less from the bottom of the list. Wanna talk about fair, come on. It made my decison a little easier not to go back. Thanks for the memories.

 

[Hpilot]

I remember when I was hired in 99, Metrojet was still working and I would probably upgrade there in 5 years. I did the senority predictor tool on Chips place in 99 and I was going to be the #1 pilot my last 3 years. Now with the Nicolau award, I was stapled to the bottom and probably 150 or less from the bottom of the list. Wanna talk about fair, come on. It made my decison a little easier not to go back. Thanks for the memories.

What are you talking about? You can't use you're career expectations from 1999 for a merger in 2006. When the merger was announced you where furloghed while I was looking at a 5-6 year upgrade. This is what drives us on the West nuts. Absolutely no concept of reality on the East side.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Upgrade time and retirements were such that, in 1999, US Airways looked to be the best airline for compensation, work rules, upgrade time, etc.

Didn't seem like much of a gamble to me at the time.

FA... I don't know how to put it any gentler but you failed to do your homework. You could be be a 121 capt, working about 4 days/month making 300+ if you had made a different choice in 1999.

BBB

 

[reepicheep]

In 1999 did you take a hard look at Airways or ask around a bit...those of use there could have predicted the truth. The airline was being prettied up and propped up by Wolf for the United merger. You were hired as training float for the new A319's. The "career expectations" you spoke of were a fantasy, as were mine as a 12-year F/O at the time.

 

[PHXFLYR]

If you were smart enough to pick up on that fact ,than why arent other guys and gals you fly with aren't? I don't get it.


PHXFLYR

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Perception is reality....

 

[ual570]

Good luck to you in the future. You have bigger balls than I do.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

It doesn't take balls to make a decision like this. You just take a deep breath, make a list of pros and cons, roll the dice, and try not to be a Monday morning quarterback.

I'm the biggest wimp I know! Maybe that's why I made the decision I made.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Best of luck to the 09/17 recall class this Monday.

I'll raise my glass and toast to you with a cold frosty barley malt this beautiful autumn-like weekend in the Ozarks.

Hopefully somebody will post how many show up.