USAir East West NIC Award Resolution? Very soon!

[catIIIc]

No Judge in his/her right mind would overturn binding arbitration. Do you know the ramifications in the business/law world this would cause. Binding arbitration is not just used in SLI's but in business deals, contract disputes, etc. All past arbitrations would be up for grabs at that point, everyone that didn't feel they got a fair shake would reneg on the deal.

 

[B-atch]

No Judge in his/her right mind would overturn binding arbitration. Do you know the ramifications in the business/law world this would cause. Binding arbitration is not just used in SLI's but in business deals, contract disputes, etc. All past arbitrations would be up for grabs at that point, everyone that didn't feel they got a fair shake would reneg on the deal.

OK, I'll play.... So answer this. If the "Nic" is in fact a "Binding" agreement, Why will the courts NOT mandate its use??
I'll give you a hint...Courts do not like to mingle in union matters. The unions are given "A broad range of reasonableness" when dealing with issues such as this. Therefore USAPA is free to vacate the Nic. If and when a JOINT doh cba is ratified, the west will be free to sue. However, the burden of proof that a legitimate DFR exists, will lie on the plaintiff. If USAPA gives the west protections in the form of C&Rs, how could they claim a DFR?
In essence, Doug has been given immunity in the form of GUIDANCE by the courts. As long as the Co. is free of "Collusion", it can agree to a CBA that does not include the "Nic"..

 

[Turtle21]

OK, I'll play.... So answer this. If the "Nic" is in fact a "Binding" agreement, Why will the courts NOT mandate its use??
I'll give you a hint...Courts do not like to mingle in union matters. The unions are given "A broad range of reasonableness" when dealing with issues such as this. Therefore USAPA is free to vacate the Nic. If and when a JOINT doh cba is ratified, the west will be free to sue. However, the burden of proof that a legitimate DFR exists, will lie on the plaintiff. If USAPA gives the west protections in the form of C&Rs, how could they claim a DFR?
In essence, Doug has been given immunity in the form of GUIDANCE by the courts. As long as the Co. is free of "Collusion", it can agree to a CBA that does not include the "Nic"..

Touché

Internal union dispute..
No injunction..
No court obstruction or interference..
USAPA bargains with LCC as they see fit..
Pursuant to legitimate union objective..
Wide range of reasonableness..

 

[TWA Dude]

If USAPA gives the west protections in the form of C&Rs, how could they claim a DFR?

Up till this point I thought you were actually serious. Now I see you were just being funny -- as if a DFR trial didn't already take place with the jury laughing at those super-duper-protective C&Rs.

And BTW, the only protection from furlough is the seniority number. Now go ahead and make me laugh some more by telling me there couldn't possibly be any furloughs in the future.

 

[General Lee]

OK, I'll play.... So answer this. If the "Nic" is in fact a "Binding" agreement, Why will the courts NOT mandate its use??
I'll give you a hint...Courts do not like to mingle in union matters. The unions are given "A broad range of reasonableness" when dealing with issues such as this. Therefore USAPA is free to vacate the Nic. If and when a JOINT doh cba is ratified, the west will be free to sue. However, the burden of proof that a legitimate DFR exists, will lie on the plaintiff. If USAPA gives the west protections in the form of C&Rs, how could they claim a DFR?
In essence, Doug has been given immunity in the form of GUIDANCE by the courts. As long as the Co. is free of "Collusion", it can agree to a CBA that does not include the "Nic"..

They also didn't say it was legal to duck your obligations. Everyone knows, including yourselves, that you ducked the award. So, continue with substandard wages and zero integrity. The APA is watching though, and won't fall for your schtick. Eventually the NIC will rule, and you know it. We all do.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Deadalus]

Oh my gosh, you poor dumb easties. If anything, Silver just killed your DOH dream. Do you guys actually read anything in its entirety or do you just slurp up the USAPA kool aid? Yes, you can negotiate a new list, but it's going to be held up against the NIC. That list is by no means dead. You go ahead and present a DOH list including the furloughed pilots to Parker. I hope the poor guy doesn't die from laughing so hard. Have you dumb-dumbs ever made a good decision in your lives?

 

[Deadalus]

Touché

Internal union dispute..
No injunction..
No court obstruction or interference..
USAPA bargains with LCC as they see fit..
Pursuant to legitimate union objective..
Wide range of reasonableness..

Poor turdhole, you just don't get it do you?

 

[B-atch]

Here's a proposal... A joint east/west cba were the SLI is based on the "Nic"...However there are caveats. Once a FORMER AW pilot bids another domicile other than PHX, his/her seniority reverts to DOH..This includes the CURRENT airline and any MERGER-S that may result.
In this scenario your beloved Nic award lives on for ever, as long as you remain in PHX. We can call this "The Invisible Nic fence Award"!!
So you see there are viable solutions to this conundrum..One just needs to be creative..

 

[B-atch]

Have you dumb-dumbs ever made a good decision in your lives?

Yes...And so far, its working out..What say YOU? I see you're no longer in aviation....Moved on to greener pastures?

 

[say again]

Have you dumb-dumbs ever made a good decision in your lives?

Looking at their current pay-rates, I'd say no!

 

[B-atch]

Looking at their current pay-rates, I'd say no!

Pay rates come and go...Seniority is FOR-EVER...

 

[Turtle21]

Poor turdhole, you just don't get it do you?

The intelligent can see that you resorted to name calling. It's the last place to run when someone comes to the distasteful realization they have no rational counter point, or they are just lazy.

 

[becket]

Pay rates come and go...Seniority is FOR-EVER...

The Nic award is forever. Regardless what your scab communications department lies to you about.

 

[Superbird]

Here's a proposal... A joint east/west cba were the SLI is based on the "Nic"...However there are caveats. Once a FORMER AW pilot bids another domicile other than PHX, his/her seniority reverts to DOH..This includes the CURRENT airline and any MERGER-S that may result.
In this scenario your beloved Nic award lives on for ever, as long as you remain in PHX. We can call this "The Invisible Nic fence Award"!!
So you see there are viable solutions to this conundrum..One just needs to be creative..

Sounds like a ripe DFR.

 

[Superbird]

OK, I'll play.... So answer this. If the "Nic" is in fact a "Binding" agreement, Why will the courts NOT mandate its use??
I'll give you a hint...Courts do not like to mingle in union matters. The unions are given "A broad range of reasonableness" when dealing with issues such as this. Therefore USAPA is free to vacate the Nic. If and when a JOINT doh cba is ratified, the west will be free to sue. However, the burden of proof that a legitimate DFR exists, will lie on the plaintiff. If USAPA gives the west protections in the form of C&Rs, how could they claim a DFR?
In essence, Doug has been given immunity in the form of GUIDANCE by the courts. As long as the Co. is free of "Collusion", it can agree to a CBA that does not include the "Nic"..

You don't really believe this do you? USAPA is in the corner; with very tight parameters. An unenviable position to be in. But what does the rest of the industry know...you east guys are happy at the bottom. How long have you enjoyed those stellar payrates?

 

[Deadalus]

The intelligent can see that you resorted to name calling. It's the last place to run when someone comes to the distasteful realization they have no rational counter point, or they are just lazy.

Keep telling yourself that dumb dumb. It's going to hit you like a ton of bricks when that NIC gets implemented and you realize how much money you've lost. I'm on the sidelines, but I think with what the east did to the west a bump and flush might be in order. I'd laugh my butt off if it goes that far. And NO I wasn't one of the ones furloughed, you'd be surprised how many outside Airways think you guys are the scum of the earth, well either that or canidates for the darwin award. Which one is it, no integrity or dumb as a rock?

 

[Bringupthebird]

Pay rates come and go...Seniority is FOR-EVER...

No it isn't. When you are furloughed, you have no seniority.

 

[Bringupthebird]

OK, I'll play.... So answer this. If the "Nic" is in fact a "Binding" agreement, Why will the courts NOT mandate its use??
I'll give you a hint...Courts do not like to mingle in union matters. The unions are given "A broad range of reasonableness" when dealing with issues such as this.

In a stand-alone union that is not in the process of merging two groups, you may be correct. However, the rules are a little stickier when you put yourself in the position of double-agent between two groups and then make and obvious choice to support one side at the expense of the other. This is where a court will decide that it is more a matter of the rights of a particular class being trampled in direct opposition to an arbitrators award.

Don't hang your hat on Broad Range of Resonableness, in this instance, because once the contract is ratified, the damages can be quantified and USAPA will be liquified (with damages accruing to individual members).

 

[becket]

The USAPA Scabs have been trying to hide under the "wide range of reasonablness" since inception. A jury shot them down after 90 minutes of deliberation. Nothing has changed, and nothing they do will EVER change the fact that these Scumbag Scabs that inhabit the East Coast will ever be considered "reasonable". Extortion isn't reasonable.

They found a parasite lawyer that told them what they wanted to hear....then over charged them over a million bucks and bailed. Genius.

 

[B-atch]

you east guys are happy at the bottom. How long have you enjoyed those stellar payrates?

Funny how the west is sooo concerned with OUR pay-rates...YOU keep the Nic, we recapture OUR attrition..
This is a war of attrition..Both sides are entrenched in a bitter fight that in the end, winner TAKES ALL!!
I must say that although the pay rates do SUCK, every east pilot I know is prepared for the long term.. All the foreclosures, divorces, and refinancing of debt have come to pass. We are "DUG INN". Besides massive upward movement is on the horizon. In a short 3 years we could foreseeably hire into the 190 capt seat and/or 767 international F/O.
In the mean time the west lingers and stagnates...Disillusioned, debt ridden, and frustrated, MASS exodus ensues. Eventual turnover yields a majority that is non affected by the Nic. The new majority will toss out all claims to the failed Nic, as if were a worn out old rag..
This assuming a failed AA/US merger. If the later should come to fruition, then 3 way Mac/Bond baby!!

 

[B-atch]

Don't hang your hat on Broad Range of Resonableness, in this instance, because once the contract is ratified, the damages can be quantified and USAPA will be liquified (with damages accruing to individual members).

Thats ok....The status quo continues into INFINITY!!

 

[sean67]

Funny how the west is sooo concerned with OUR pay-rates...YOU keep the Nic, we recapture OUR attrition..
This is a war of attrition..Both sides are entrenched in a bitter fight that in the end, winner TAKES ALL!!
I must say that although the pay rates do SUCK, every east pilot I know is prepared for the long term.. All the foreclosures, divorces, and refinancing of debt have come to pass. We are "DUG INN". Besides massive upward movement is on the horizon. In a short 3 years we could foreseeably hire into the 190 capt seat and/or 767 international F/O.
In the mean time the west lingers and stagnates...Disillusioned, debt ridden, and frustrated, MASS exodus ensues. Eventual turnover yields a majority that is non affected by the Nic. The new majority will toss out all claims to the failed Nic, as if were a worn out old rag..
This assuming a failed AA/US merger. If the later should come to fruition, then 3 way Mac/Bond baby!!

Right on! If you look at the past posts on this subject, I think you will find that "the angry F/O's" resides on the west.

 

[charlie2]

The USAPA Scabs have been trying to hide under the "wide range of reasonablness" since inception. A jury shot them down after 90 minutes of deliberation. Nothing has changed, and nothing they do will EVER change the fact that these Scumbag Scabs that inhabit the East Coast will ever be considered "reasonable". Extortion isn't reasonable.

They found a parasite lawyer that told them what they wanted to hear....then over charged them over a million bucks and bailed. Genius.

Becket we talked about this. A scab is a union worker who crosses a picket line during a strike to work. Once again I thought you were smarter than this. We need to get a beer.

 

[TWA Dude]

A scab is a union worker who crosses a picket line during a strike to work.

From The Merriam-Webster dictionary:

-----------------------------------------------
Definition of SCAB
1: scabies of domestic animals

2: a crust of hardened blood and serum over a wound

3a : a contemptible person
b (1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union (2) : a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3) : a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike (4) : one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms

4: any of various bacterial or fungus diseases of plants characterized by crustaceous spots; also : one of the spots

------------------------------------------------

While the common use of the word refers only to strike-breakers it's obvious the East pilots also fall under definitions 3a and possibly 4.
USAPA was formed for a very un-unionlike reason and the greatest beneficiary of USAPA has been USAirways management. If the shoe fits...

 

[charlie2]

He said fungus.

 

[charlie2]

From The Merriam-Webster dictionary:

-----------------------------------------------
Definition of SCAB
1: scabies of domestic animals

2: a crust of hardened blood and serum over a wound

3a : a contemptible person
b (1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union (2) : a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3) : a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike (4) : one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms

4: any of various bacterial or fungus diseases of plants characterized by crustaceous spots; also : one of the spots


------------------------------------------------

While the common use of the word refers only to strike-breakers it's obvious the East pilots also fall under definitions 3a and possibly 4.
USAPA was formed for a very un-unionlike reason and the greatest beneficiary of USAPA has been USAirways management. If the shoe fits...

3a???????? I work for union wages. 3a??????? You want me to work for ever so slightly better union wages and give up so much....NOT! 3a????

 

[Superbird]

Funny how the west is sooo concerned with OUR pay-rates...YOU keep the Nic, we recapture OUR attrition..
This is a war of attrition..Both sides are entrenched in a bitter fight that in the end, winner TAKES ALL!!
I must say that although the pay rates do SUCK, every east pilot I know is prepared for the long term.. All the foreclosures, divorces, and refinancing of debt have come to pass. We are "DUG INN". Besides massive upward movement is on the horizon. In a short 3 years we could foreseeably hire into the 190 capt seat and/or 767 international F/O.
In the mean time the west lingers and stagnates...Disillusioned, debt ridden, and frustrated, MASS exodus ensues. Eventual turnover yields a majority that is non affected by the Nic. The new majority will toss out all claims to the failed Nic, as if were a worn out old rag..
This assuming a failed AA/US merger. If the later should come to fruition, then 3 way Mac/Bond baby!!

A fool and his money have parted.

 

[doh]

3a???????? I work for union wages. 3a??????? You want me to work for ever so slightly better union wages and give up so much....NOT! 3a????

Top A320 total compensation is equal to or less than what I make flying a business jet. If that is your definition of union wages...there is no hope for you whatsoever.

 

[charlie2]

Top A320 total compensation is equal to or less than what I make flying a business jet. If that is your definition of union wages...there is no hope for you whatsoever.

Congratualions Mam! Wouldn't be awefull if your company let you go? If you say that would never happen everyone on this forum would know you're a liar. Good luck rich lady you must be new in the airoplane thingy biz.

 

[B-atch]

Top A320 total compensation is equal to or less than what I make flying a business jet. If that is your definition of union wages...there is no hope for you whatsoever.

Congratulations!! Enjoy it in good health...Now run along to the Non-Airline forums...