USAir East West NIC Award Resolution? Very soon!

[Turtle21]

Anybody.

Back to pre-dec judgment.

"USAPA is free to bargain as they see fit."

 

[General Lee]

"USAPA is free to bargain as they see fit."

But, as soon as you try to implement a new seniority list, then the Westies are free to sue, and they will. The NIC award will follow you forever.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Turtle21]

But, as soon as you try to implement a new seniority list, then the Westies are free to sue, and they will. The NIC award will follow you forever.


Bye Bye--General Lee

"Wide range of reasonableness" <---SCOTUS standard of fair representation.

 

[General Lee]

"Wide range of reasonableness" <---SCOTUS standard of fair representation.

Thanks, you can negotiate for a new contract, but as soon as your submit a different list other than the NIC award (to the APA or some arbitrator for another SLI), you will be sued. The NIC award was not discarded. Have fun with substandard pay Judge Judy!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[NuGuy]

"Wide range of reasonableness" <---SCOTUS standard of fair representation.

Essentially. Any plan that reasonably passes the sniff test by an outsider will probably pass muster. That could be anything from DOH to straight relative seniority, plus any conditions and restrictions.

Two court rulings have now shown that this is an internal union issue, and that they have rather wide latitude to resolve as they see fit.

Will someone sue? definitely, but what this has done is set the bar rather high for any suit to succeed. Under the SCOTUS interpretation, just sitting in the seat you had might be considered reasonable, without ANY regard to anything else.

Besides, the East side has already "won", in a manner of speaking. They've gotten essentially a 5 year fence that's lasted this long, and is bound to continue, at least for the short term.

Even coming to a different SLI solution won't help at this point, because SOMEONE will sue over it, and thus delaying any integration for another 24-36 months.

Since no bump no flush continues to be the one constant, it is very unlikely that anyone on the East side will get displaced by any SLI as they move into positions that are vacated by the East's large wave of retirees. It is VERY unlikely that a judge anywhere is going to displace current seat holders...there simply is no precedent for it.

Really the only thing left is to cut a deal, gain SOMETHING out of the SLI and a pay raise, and quit swinging for the stands. Otherwise the East will still have their "fence", which, really, is all they wanted in the first place.

Nu

 

[Bringupthebird]

USAPA never intended to negotiate a contract in good faith to produce the document that would implement the NIC. This ruling merely allows them to continue to stay the course (which has been down the tubes thus far). No case has been heard to decide whether or not the NIC is binding on USAPA because there is no penalty for "intent to fail to represent".

Frankly, the pilots east and west are getting what they deserve for failing to press hard for the elimination of USAPA and it's DOH requirement. No one has tried to get the cards out for a representation vote.

Behold the power of inertia!

 

[ALGFLYR]

But, as soon as you try to implement a new seniority list, then the Westies are free to sue, and they will. The NIC award will follow you forever.


Bye Bye--General Lee

And if we merge and become APA... Who are they gonna sue???

 

[ableone]

And if we merge and become APA... Who are they gonna sue???

You miss the entire point of the court case.

The company was asking the court to provide them with a clear cut answer so they don't have to be the bad guy.

They wanted the court to say either;

1. You are not a party to the transition agreement that you signed earlier and are immune to liability should you discard an arbitrated award. This would allow the company to negotiate with USAPA without fear of losing an otherwise strong case filed by the west pilots.

or

2. You absolutely can not deviate from the arbitrated award. In which case they could go to USAPA and say; "Hey we would like to negotiate with you but our hands are tied..."

The court has essentially said "The 9th circuit said the courts can't step in and make a decision until after an agreement (contract) is ratified in which case the interested parties can come back to court and sue on the merits. (Addington)

The court punted so the company's ass is still out in the breeze.

Next step - The company will appeal Judge Silver's opinion to the 9th circuit.

Long story short, the answer to your question is it's the company who will be sued, which is why this was on Judge Silver's desk.

 

[General Lee]

And if we merge and become APA... Who are they gonna sue???

USAPA? A seniority merger won't go into affect until an SOC, single operating certificate, which UAL still doesn't have after 2 years. I would think that might be enough time to sue someone, right? If a different seniority list is submitted, then it could happen, and USAPA would have to submit one to an arbitrator to get the process rolling.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Turtle21]

And if we merge and become APA... Who are they gonna sue???

USAPA and APA agree to LOS with APA, and fences to protect APA 777s and 747s. No arbitration needed, the companies make a rush deal to get the merger done, and everyone can move on, including everyone that wants to sue about DOH or NIC, whatever.. knock yourselves out. Don't forget to include ALPA as a defendant. They are at fault for something, always..

 

[Bringupthebird]

APA sends USAPA an e-mail telling them what they decided to do. That's the extent to which APA will negotiate with USAPA. Maybe they'll use a Hummel hand puppet.

 

[ALGFLYR]

I just got to my overnight and logged on and saw a thread that said "the Nic is dead"... I tried to read the thread but it wouldn't let me... I log out and back on and it's gone! Really? Where did that thread go??? What was said today in court??

 

[ewrord]

USAPA? A seniority merger won't go into affect until an SOC, single operating certificate, which UAL still doesn't have after 2 years. I would think that might be enough time to sue someone, right? If a different seniority list is submitted, then it could happen, and USAPA would have to submit one to an arbitrator to get the process rolling.


Bye Bye---General Lee

UAL received their Single Operating Certificate November 30, 2011. They don't yet have a single seniority list (SSL). Two separate things, SOC is granted by FAA, SSL is negotiated by the unions.

 

[Turtle21]

I just got to my overnight and logged on and saw a thread that said "the Nic is dead"... I tried to read the thread but it wouldn't let me... I log out and back on and it's gone! Really? Where did that thread go??? What was said today in court??

2 Oct 2012 USAPA Communications Committee

PHX Declaratory Judgment Proposed Decision

Oral argument in the Phoenix Declaratory Judgment case was held earlier today (October 2, 2012) in Phoenix. Judge Silver distributed a proposed decision that, if it becomes final, will grant summary judgment to USAPA, holding that USAPA is free to pursue any seniority proposal, and need not advance the Nicolau award. The proposed decision is not appropriate for distribution until it becomes final because there may be changes.

The argument lasted for more than an hour and included counsel for US Airways, the West Pilot Class and USAPA. Counsel for US Airways and the West Pilot Class argued that the decision should be changed in various respects. Counsel for USAPA reiterated that USAPA was prepared to engage in serious, genuine discussions with the West Pilots over the seniority proposal, and was hopeful the parties would continue to work together to achieve a new comprehensive collective bargaining agreement.

The argument was attended by more than 100 pilots including President Gary Hummel, Secretary-Treasurer Rob Streble and Executive Vice President Steve Smyser. President Hummel stated, “USAPA stands ready to negotiate a contract for all of our 5000 pilots, whether through a merger or otherwise. We are long overdue a contract that brings us up to par with our peers at other airlines such as Delta and United. Now that this obstacle has been removed, we will immediately petition the National Mediation Board to resume section 6 contract negotiations.

The final Order and the transcript of the argument will be posted as soon as they become available.

USAPA Communications

 

[General Lee]

You miss the entire point of the court case.

The company was asking the court to provide them with a clear cut answer so they don't have to be the bad guy.

They wanted the court to say either;

1. You are not a party to the transition agreement that you signed earlier and are immune to liability should you discard an arbitrated award. This would allow the company to negotiate with USAPA without fear of losing an otherwise strong case filed by the west pilots.

or

2. You absolutely can not deviate from the arbitrated award. In which case they could go to USAPA and say; "Hey we would like to negotiate with you but our hands are tied..."

The court has essentially said "The 9th circuit said the courts can't step in and make a decision until after an agreement (contract) is ratified in which case the interested parties can come back to court and sue on the merits. (Addington)

The court punted so the company's ass is still out in the breeze.

Next step - The company will appeal Judge Silver's opinion to the 9th circuit.

Long story short, the answer to your question is it's the company who will be sued, which is why this was on Judge Silver's desk.

Now THAT was a good explanation. Bravo! The low wages will continue until the company finds out if IT could get sued.



Bye Bye----General Lee