USAir East West NIC Award Resolution? Very soon!

[pave driver]

"I don't begrudge Parker, Horton or any other CEO for trying to sell a contract for the lowest costs they can get away with. That's their job. What it takes to defeat those efforts is unity, commitment and patience. If you don't have those elements in ample supply among the majority of your members, you'll suffer and Parker will win. If we hadn't bent over for this management in 2003 and then watched them squander our sacrifice while rewarding themselves with annual bonuses while AA continued to lose money, I don't know if our resolve would be as strong as it is right now to gut this out. We're all sick to death of waiting for this contract to be done, but I'm confident that most of us know we have them over a barrel and there is no sign I've seen that we'll go weak at the knees now. I haven't heard a negotiating update in almost a week and a half now, so I sure as hell hope they're making progress because if they come up short again, a whole lot of our guys are chomping at the bit to burn the house down. Not a wise choice if you ask me, but that's just the way it is.
If USAPA leadership isn't up to the task of standing up to Parker and his minions, they need to be replaced with leaders with some spine. We're currently having a recall election in LAX following a successful recall petition drive simply because our two reps voted in favor of the T/A against the will of our membership. They have since gotten religion and are now two of the most vocal proponents of walking away from the table and releasing the results of our strike vote. I don't support their recall personally because I don't think they should be fired for voting to let the membership vote on the T/A when they've done a good job in every other area. But it illustrates just how intolerant our membership is right now of weak leadership on APA's board. That's what it will take to get Parker's attention. If you guys have union leadership supporting a substandard MOU, they need to be recalled and replaced right now. USAPA membership absolutely MUST sent the clearest message possible to Parker that they will completely f#*k up his merger plans without a deal they can support.
I don't believe you guys or our guys are asking for anything unfair or exorbitant. All we want is industry standard. If these yahoos running the circus don't get that, they will pay a very hefty price over the longer term and continue to lose share to Delta and United. This is the best chance we'll ever have to get the contract we deserve. It's time for all involved to do a gut check and resolve to seeing this through. I just hope your union leadership doesn't f#*k it up."

 

[The Drizzle]

"I just hope your union leadership doesn't f#*k it up."

Small chance of that.

 

[Bringupthebird]

But it illustrates just how intolerant our membership is right now of weak leadership on APA's board. That's what it will take to get Parker's attention. If you guys have union leadership supporting a substandard MOU, they need to be recalled and replaced right now. USAPA membership absolutely MUST sent the clearest message possible to Parker that they will completely f#*k up his merger plans without a deal they can support.
I don't believe you guys or our guys are asking for anything unfair or exorbitant. All we want is industry standard. If these yahoos running the circus don't get that, they will pay a very hefty price over the longer term and continue to lose share to Delta and United. This is the best chance we'll ever have to get the contract we deserve. It's time for all involved to do a gut check and resolve to seeing this through. I just hope your union leadership doesn't f#*k it up."

Ooops, too late, they already did.

Imagine the APA decided to chuck 1/3 of the pilot group and in doing so got itself so entangled that it was unable to focus on anything else, especially a contract. The key ingredient - unity- was discarded as unnecessary and an impediment to their salted-earth land grab. Do you think you would have made nearly the accomplishments you have so far?

Don't count on USAPA to help as they are prohibited from farting without Parker's approval. They tried a ham-fisted attempt at wildcat job action and the court put a stop to that. Now they are so desperate for getting a green light on DOH they will undermine your attempts to raise the bar. A small group has decided that every penny of OUR money will be spent to advance their agenda; all without oversight or accountability.

I'd tell USAPA to send up a flare to signal the APA, but I'm afraid they'd hurt themselves with the pistol.

 

[becket]

Small chance of that.

USAPA has fked up everything they've touched so far. If APA IS DUMB ENOUGH to entertain something other than the Nic award, the APA pilots shouldn't get used to the idea of a contract any time soon. Ask any Easthole on loa93.

 

[The Drizzle]

USAPA has fked up everything they've touched so far. If APA IS DUMB ENOUGH to entertain something other than the Nic award, the APA pilots shouldn't get used to the idea of a contract any time soon. Ask any Easthole on loa93.

I was being facetious, I live with LOA93 too. I enjoy my job here on the east as a new-hire so far, but it's pretty clear that USAPA will likely be the largest detriment to my career going forward.

 

[Ocity]

I was being facetious, I live with LOA93 too. I enjoy my job here on the east as a new-hire so far, but it's pretty clear that USAPA will likely be the largest detriment to my career going forward.

See how much you enjoy your job several years from now when Alaska F.O.s make more than your 330 Captains. Thousands of Delta FO's already do.

USAPA must die if you ever want an improved contract. The West is NEVER going to give up this fight. The only thing the West did to deserve this mess was play by the rules and trust others would do the same.

That won't happen again.

 

[The Drizzle]

Thanks for telling me something I didn't already know.

 

[Ocity]

Thanks for telling me something I didn't already know.

If you're an East coaster, you're in the best position of affect change. Anything from the West is totally ignored by Easthole USAPA. You know, things like common sense, the rule of law, integrity and decency.

 

[The Drizzle]

Maybe in a few years when the retirement numbers change the landscape. Until then, I'm just "young enough to be my kid"

 

[Carl S.]

Keep reading those CLT updates from McKee....All the info you need to stay on LOA 93 till you give up....I like how key facts and quotes from the court did not get into the update...It takes two to tango, USAPA has nobody to dance with...

 

[Flybywire44]

One actually has to read and compare the Leonidas October 12, 2012 update, McKee's October 29th Charlotte update and Judge Silver's Order side by side for a clearer picture.

McKee's update included many quotes/facts from Judge Silver's Order that Leonidas omited in their October 12th update:

“USAPA’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose.” (Page 9, Line 1-5)
“USAPA is free to pursue any seniority position it wishes during the collective bargaining negotiations.” [But with that freedom comes risk because the West Pilot Defendants may have viable legal claims in the future should the collective bargaining agreement contain a seniority provision harmful to a subsection of the union. ] (Page 1, Line 21-23)
US Airways “must negotiate with USAPA and it need not insist on any particular seniority regime.” (Page 1, Line 23-24)
“It is undisputed that the Transition Agreement can be modified at any time by written agreement of USAPA and US Airways.” (Page 7, Line 2-3)
“There is no obvious impediment to USAPA and US Airways negotiating and agreeing upon any seniority regime they wish.” ( Page 7, Line 4-6)
“Seniority rights are creations of the collective bargaining agreement….” [and so may be revised or abrogated by later negotiated changes in this agreement.[/B]] (Page 7, Line 7-8)
“It is unlikely the West Pilots could successfully allege claims against US Airways merely for not insisting that USAPA continue to advocate for the Nicolau Award.” ( Page 8, Line 12-14)
USAPA’s Motion for Summary Judgment was GRANTED [and DENIED IN PART]. (Page 8, Line 18-19)
The West Pilots’ Motion for Summary Judgment was DENIED.

It is clear that USAPA and all of its pilots benefited from Judge Silver's award. USAPA, APA and US Airways are free to move forward, negotiating a contract and later implement a seniority new regime.

Progress can finally be made.
​

 

[pave driver]

It's time we all move together in the same direction.

 

[pave driver]

UPDATE 1-AMR pilots cite 'potential' for imminent labor deal


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Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:18pm EDT
* Pilots seeking industry standard on pay rates, outsourcing

* Union acknowledges progress being made

* Union still supports merger with US Airways

By Nick Brown

NEW YORK, Oct 30 (Reuters) - The pilots union at American Airlines said on Tuesday that a labor deal could be close if the bankrupt airline is willing to make certain key concessions.

The Allied Pilots Association union, locked in years of tense contract negotiations with the AMR Corp unit, said in a statement that it wants a contract on par with other major carriers, namely Delta Air Lines, on issues such as pay.

"There is potential for an agreement with AMR in the days ahead, but it all comes down to a number of moves management will need to make on key deal points to bring us into the realm of industry standard," the union said.

American reiterated its desire to reach a consensual agreement.

Denise Lynn, American's senior vice president for people, "last week said that good progress has been made and we are approaching a deal that we hope the APA board of directors will soon agree to put out for a ratification vote," said Bruce Hicks, American Airlines spokesman.

AMR declared bankruptcy last November, in part to reduce labor costs. While it has reached new contracts with its flight attendants' and ground workers' unions, it remains at odds with the pilot group.

The pilots' union announced on Oct. 21 that AMR had agreed to certain concessions, including improvements to disability plans and a one-year moratorium on closing pilot bases.

But major items remain unresolved, most notably pay rates and outsourcing work to pilots not represented by the union, Dennis Tajer, the pilots' spokesman, told Reuters on Tuesday.

In its statement, the pilots' union said getting a deal would guarantee it a 13.5 percent equity stake in a reorganized AMR. It also said labor peace would give the union more influence in talks between AMR and its creditors over how the airline would emerge from bankruptcy.

AMR has said it wants to emerge as a standalone entity, but smaller competitor US Airways Group Inc is making an aggressive push to acquire the company in bankruptcy. The pilots' union, along with the rest of AMR's unionized labor force, supports a merger.

But while Tuesday's statement acknowledged the benefits of a deal, the union is not eager to sign a new contract at any cost.

"While there is progress being made, it will only continue if it results in an industry-standard contract," Tajer told Reuters.

The union must balance its demands against economic realities. It stressed in the statement that a deal must be economically feasible for AMR because it will require support from AMR's creditors and approval by its bankruptcy court.

The sides have been in talks on a labor deal since 2006. The union voted down a tentative agreement in August, but its board went back to the negotiating table earlier this month after September flight cancellations and delays that American blamed on a slowdown campaign by pilots.

Incidents in which seats came unbolted from the floor on American flights also raised concerns about safety at the airline and made it the butt of late-night talk show jokes. The pilots union has denied calling any work slowdown.

AMR is in merger talks with US Airways, although it has said it would prefer to consider a tie-up only after leaving bankruptcy. Some bondholders have expressed interest in funding a plan that would bring AMR out of bankruptcy on its own.

Power struggles can arise between creditor constituencies with differing ideas on how a company should exit bankruptcy.

One of the most powerful constituencies in AMR's case is its unsecured creditors committee, which advocates for all of the airline's unsecured creditors. The unions, which have lost faith in AMR management, including Chief Executive Officer Tom Horton, have seats on that committee and would prefer a US Airways takeover sooner rather than later. But labor discord with pilots could add uncertainty to the prospect of a smooth merger.

Tajer said on Tuesday that the union will continue to support a merger even if it signs a new contract.

A deal would save the union from having to endure unilateral work terms designed to cut costs, which AMR earlier won court approval to impose.

The case is In re AMR Corp et al, U.S. Bankruptcy Court, Southern District of New York, No. 11-15463

 

[TWA Dude]

It is clear that USAPA and all of its pilots benefited from Judge Silver's award. USAPA, APA and US Airways are free to move forward, negotiating a contract and later implement a seniority new regime. Progress can finally be made.

Keep clicking those heels together and repeating your mantra and maybe it will come true. But in the real world the only people who believe it are Easties. Noticed how Dug won't negotiate seniority unless he's sure a judge won't slap an injunction halting the process? If you actually read the Silver verdict you'll notice she didn't give Dug the one thing he was asking for: protection. USAPA has nobody to negotiate seniority with!

I don't know how to say this any clearer: until the East drops its attack on our seniority, aka the Nicolau award, the West will fight and there will be no unity. Integrity matters. The law and ethics are on our side. You're disgusting.

 

[pave driver]

FORT WORTH, Texas (AP) -- The pilots' union said Tuesday it could reach a deal with American Airlines on a new contract that would include an ownership stake in the company.
The Allied Pilots Association said, however, that there is still no agreement on several key points.
Pilots voted in August to reject what the company termed its best and final offer, but the union says any deal would include improvements. It would include a 13.5 percent stake in American parent AMR Corp., which was part of the rejected offer.
The union's negotiating committee said an agreement would strengthen the union's ability to influence "strategic alternatives" — whether AMR merges with US Airways Group Inc. — and selection of management and the board of directors.
American Airlines spokesman Bruce Hicks said negotiations were continuing on a deal that could lead to "growth opportunity and security for our pilots and allows American Airlines to successfully restructure." He said the company hopes the union's board will soon approve a deal that could go to a ratification vote.
All of American's other labor groups have approved new contracts that American says will cut costs and help the company emerge from bankruptcy protection as a successful airline. A senior AMR executive said Friday that a deal with pilots could be close.
The union wants a contract with pay raises to bring pilots in line with pay at Delta Air Lines.