USAIR Capt denies JS to SWA commuter!

[OldManPilot]

Jumpseat company policy should be clearly defined in every airlines policy and procedures and/or union contract. While it is the Captains authority to make the ultimate decision, he should be guided by these policies. I have to believe that these are now included is to avoid conflicts like what happened to this pilot. I have had several Captains in the past consult his/her policy to check on whether my airline was listed, then close the book and "decide" whether or not I could ride.

I find the above situation to be the extreme, not the normal. We, as pilot/safety professonals realize the importance of the jumpseat should at all times try our best to help each other.

It would have to be an extreme circumstance for me to deny the use of the jumpseat. ie rude / disruptive behavior prior to boarding or if the pilot does not meet company policy (CASS) or lack of proper identification.

In closing, it is ultimately the Captains decision, but it should be guided by written policy and good common sence.

Safe flying!

 

[Airbum]

Last Friday I was informed by the agent at BWI that the 757 Capt had informed him he didn't want any Southwest pilots in his Jumpseat. The agent told me this as he informed me not to worry because he had a seat in the back (he thought the Capt meant he didn't want them on the flight deck). However after going onboard to say hello and giving the lead FA my ID she entered the flight deck and just behind her was the agent with the final paperwork. I overheard the Capt giving the agent hell and telling him he had usurped his powers as a capt in allowing a JS. The agent came back out and told me to take a seat in the back. I assumed he was relaying this from the Capt. Today I returned to BWI and talked to the agent. He informed me the Capt didn't want any SWA people on his aircraft period. I am posting this not to flame USAIR. They have always been great host. I would like any USAIR commuters who read this to have a little conversation with this Capt(email, letters, phone call, etc) about his past and future actions. I am not posting his name here but will be glad to supply it if you contact me direct via email here.

I understand your are upset and have a right to be. That being said this public attempt to intimidate the Captain is misguided. I doubt that at the time you told the Captain, to his face, that you planned on soliciting a public campaign to smear his name if he didn't do what you wanted. Apparently your "request" for the jumpseat had an "or else" clause. I would guess that YOUR behavior after the fact has broken more jumpseat ethics then his actions.

 

[TillerTurner]

"Pipejockey"?(not that there is anything with your choice)

Well don't you think southworst owes those pilots a ride since the routes belonged to USAir until they were undercut in typical southworst fashion?

Are you the bitter "boy" flight attendant I flew with last week? You said that after the next pride parade you would probably be in a better mood.
Carry that flag with pride. :cartman:

 

[PurpleInMEM]

I may get whipped for this, but why does the Captain have "full authority" over seats in the back? I can completely understand control over cockpit seats from a security or distraction point of view, but how does having another pilot "riding" in the back with the rest of the pax affect the almighty Captain? If the "jumpseater" (a poor term in my opinion) is intoxicated or causing a disturbance the Captain should have the right to reject him/her, just like he does with any other pax. Seems to me that the seats in the back should belong to the company and Captains that put anyone off that would be sitting in back should have to justify their actions. Personally I think that once you're verified in CASS the agent should be able to issue a boarding pass and that should be the end of it. Why does a Captain even need to know that you're there? Probably yet another arcane FAA rule with no basis in reality.

Now I know that you traditionalists will probably fry me on that point, but maybe it's time to look outside of the military-like world you believe airline flying should be. It aint the military, despite the goofy uniforms they make us wear.

 

[PCL_128]

Purple, if the guy wants to non-rev and pay for a pass, then that's his business and he'll never have to speak to the Captain. But if he wants a free ride via jumpseating, then that's only provided by a professional courtesy from the Captain. Nonrev passes are under the jurisdiction of the company, but the jumpseat (whether in the back or up front) always belongs to the Captain.

 

[Draginass]

Purple -
Consider yourself fried.

Don't be in such a hurry to relinquish Captain's authority. That's exactly what management wants you to do. You may want to go back and read your Flight Manual, General Ops Manual, or whatever Fred calls it, about Captain's authority and jumpseater responsibilities.

As for jumpseating, it's a PRIVILEGE, not a right. It's something called "Professional Courtesy" to let the Captain know that you're on board. In the event of an emergency or any other time the Captain feels appropriate, you can be pressed into service. It's important that the Captain know who's on board the aircraft that might have special skills that could aid in a time of crisis.

With regards to the military, as a military aircraft commander for over 20 years, a military pilot does not have the authority to, on a whim, arbitrarily toss someone off the airplane who is on a pax manifest or military orders.

With regards to your alluding to a stereotypical "military mentality" of airline Captains, I've flown two cargo airlines and a legacy for quite a few years now and do not in any way see inappropriate use of authority with ANY of the pilots I've flown with. And as point of fact, I never saw it in 22 years of military flying either.

Can't speak to FEDEX, however. Never worked for Fred.

 

[Scrapdog]

A captain doesn't need to justify denial. It's just like letting someone ride in your car. You don't have to let a guest in. The captain's jumpseat is his/hers. It's a priviledge and you are a guest of the captain if he/she allows you on.

Later

Mega - you can ride on my lap...er, I mean j/s anytime!

 

[TWA Dude]

Boy, all these pages about captain's authority. The JS is indeed the captain's authority but like all people in powerful positions they should rule wisely. I agree with those who said denying the JS for petty reasons is an abuse and will only serve to further degrade this authority. IMHO the only valid reason to deny the JS is for safety reasons and scabs. JS and ProStan committees are the proper venue to deal with agenda-imposing captains but even they don't have the power to order a captain to cease and desist. When pilots can't effectively police our own the Company steps in to the detriment of all.

 

[Frap]

Actually, I don't think any Captain "owns" a jumpseat. Seats on an airplane belong to the airline. The Captain IS responsible to adhere to his/her company's jumpseat policy. For example, the Captain should make sure the employee is appropriately dressed and he/she is able to assist flight attendants in an emergency if they are riding on a cabin jumpseat. Of course the captain is responsible for that. But the jumpseat (as earlier mentioned by someone else) is a free ride, be it in the front or the back and subject to approval by the captain, not the gate agent or anyone else.

It is also the Captain's responsibility to deny a jumpseat if aircraft performance (ie. weight and balance) is out of limit for the flight. A good example is when alternate fuel is required. This should be communicated to the jumpseater. If it looks close on the numbers, I usually tell the F/A's to count kids to reduce our weight and we end up taking the jumpseater anyway. That goes without saying. I've had to deny a couple of jumps at my previous airline for that very reason, not to mention that REVENUE pax were denied as well (and don't get me started on the forward CG issue with my previous airplane).

Another new policy we have is we can no longer accept offline jumpseaters in the cockpit if there is one seat open in either the cabin or cabin jumpseat. If the airplane is completely full, then we can accept offline jumpseaters (CASS approved) into the cockpit. Again, the Captain may have had a reason other than he hates WN pilots to deny the cockpit jumpseat. I suspect that this is the policy at most airlines.

Lastly, don't confuse jumpseat with a cabin seat in the back. Our gate agents are cleared to allow offline employees a seat if there is one available. At our company, it is NOT required for the Captain to see this employee who has been assigned a regular cabin seat. Since his or her credentials have already been checked by our gate agents, they can just grab a seat. It's a good policy. If I had to see every employee (JetBlue or offline) who was riding on us out of SLC-SFO last week, we'd been 30 minutes late pushing back (121 customers plus 32 employees travelling standby).

Before the TSA frauds exercised irresponsibility with our jumpseats (Thanks to bin Laden and his cowards--admittedly, at that time I had a whopping 18 months of the airline dream in my memory banks) I believe that offline guys and gals could ride the cockpit jumpseat regardless of any open cabin seats. At that time, did one's jumpseat status change if one was granted a seat in the back? I don't believe that it did and I don't believe it does now. A jumpseat ride a jumpseat ride regardless of where one sits on the airplane


I can see why you would think that it's a good policy at B6, what with 32 bleepin' standbys (Good God, 32??!!). I respectfully disagree.

 

[Frap]

Boy, all these pages about captain's authority. The JS is indeed the captain's authority but like all people in powerful positions they should rule wisely. I agree with those who said denying the JS for petty reasons is an abuse and will only serve to further degrade this authority. IMHO the only valid reason to deny the JS is for safety reasons and scabs. JS and ProStan committees are the proper venue to deal with agenda-imposing captains but even they don't have the power to order a captain to cease and desist. When pilots can't effectively police our own the Company steps in to the detriment of all.

Very well put, sir.