USA Jet Eliminates Training Pay

[hammer2]

I knew you would come around.

Hey, I spent my time on the active aero ramp freezing my nads off. I'm not talking out my ____, I've been there and done that. I do respect the pilots, not the management of these companies. I just have one question. I know its legal , but still how many of you all went over 14 hours duty time? And if so how many times?

 

[flygirl_1313]

That's kind of a silly question... every Freight Dawg has done something of the nature at one time or another... even if it does happen at USA JET, you can bet your #($ that it happens at every other carrier, and at most of them, it happens on a regular basis. I've flown freight for other companies... many make a common practice of running pilots to the brink of 14 and then expecting them to go over and fudge the paperwork. I worked for one of those! (and that wasn't USA Jet)

 

[Berkut]

Has USA Jet had any low time new hires come through yet? How are they doing?

 

[pilotyip]

Reality

flygirl stop dealing in reality, this is a pilot board. BTW we have our first 225 hour new hire starting next week, he should do fine. The lowest we have hired in the past is around 400 hours, and he is a DC-9 F/O now doing fine. Hours to not define a pilot's skills, training defines the pilot's skill. At 350 hours I was sitting in the left seat of a P-3 flying patrols off the coast of Vietnam. A good training prgram can bring the right people to those skills.

 

[hammer2]

That's kind of a silly question... every Freight Dawg has done something of the nature at one time or another... even if it does happen at USA JET, you can bet your #($ that it happens at every other carrier, and at most of them, it happens on a regular basis. I've flown freight for other companies... many make a common practice of running pilots to the brink of 14 and then expecting them to go over and fudge the paperwork. I worked for one of those! (and that wasn't USA Jet)

You say it's silly, but it should stop. If I bust 14 its only by minutes, but I get extra rest on the other side. Freight companies take an unfair advantage of the WX, MX, PAX delay, or the 91 dead head loop holes and work pilots far beyond 14 hours. They do it with a smile because good ole boys like YIP smile and call it reality! Get wise Freight Dawgs, just shut it down at 14! Not 20.

 

[wannabe a DR.]

Too bad that the pilots who have been working here for years are still on a pay freeze.

 

[transpac]

At 350 hours I was sitting in the left seat of a P-3 flying patrols off the coast of Vietnam. A good training prgram can bring the right people to those skills.

This is misleading and kind of silly pilotyip. You might have been in the left seat of a P3 getting some handlebar time when you had 350 hours, but you were a long way from being the aircraft commander. Heck, a lot of us were in the left seat of something with zero pilot time.

 

[pilotyip]

True not PPC

Tranpac, not misleading at all, true I was not the PPC, that would not come until I had 900 hours in type a year later, but I was flying 200' off the water with one engine in the bag, with a non A/C in the right seat. In the P-3 I never made a right seat landing nor shot a right seat approach until I was designated instructor pilot. But at 350 hour total time I trained to function as a crewmember in a multi-crew environment by attention to the skills I would need to function in my crew position on the P-3. This same thing applies to the civilian world; a low time pilot can be given the explicit skills needed to function effectively as support member on the two-man crew. As stated before flight time is not the sole determinant of a pilot's skills.

BTW Dr wanta, there is no pay freeze at USA Jet, there has not been one since 2004. Everyone scheduled for raises this year is getting their raises on time, do you have different info? Do you work at USA Jet?

 

[cruxx@9]

You say it's silly, but it should stop. If I bust 14 its only by minutes, but I get extra rest on the other side. Freight companies take an unfair advantage of the WX, MX, PAX delay, or the 91 dead head loop holes and work pilots far beyond 14 hours. They do it with a smile because good ole boys like YIP smile and call it reality! Get wise Freight Dawgs, just shut it down at 14! Not 20.

Wow Hammer, that is an appropriate avatar for you...The Enzyte guy...because you need TO GROW A SET.

Going over 14 hours is just a way of life flying freight. I'm happy you get your cushy fractional job with your extended rest and all, but the boys out there working for a living need to work. Not everyone has what it takes to fly freight. A lot of people (you) can't handle it because guess what...it can be hard work...and you might get dirty. But just because you have a problem with it, don't try to dictate someone elses job. Flying freight has gotten a lot better over the past decade. I remember a time not that long ago when there was no hard duty time, just a gray interpretation. There are some carriers that go over board I know, been there. USA Jet is not one of them, I never was made to fly if I was truely fatigued. USA Jet did a great job of respecting the pilots rest, duty and flight times within the FAR's and the pilots personal limits. And it's not an every day thing either. There were a lot of days flying freight that I only put in a 13.5 hour duty day.

It would be great to go to the left seat of a 777 and make some great money and have a great schedule, but there is this little thing called paying your dues in aviation. Unfortunately you have to start somewhere and freight pays better than most low time jobs and you get jet time. The skills one learns along the way are invaluable. Just the other day I was flying with a former freight dog in the airbus and we were talking about our past. We had two two days back to back that were hard. (not freight dog hard, but harder than usual) We could smile knowing that watching the sun come up in the beginning of the day, is a lot better than watching it come up at the end of the day. Basically, what I'm saying is there probably won't be another job as challenging as what we did before. Makes everything else easier.

So Hammer, just becase you couldn't handle it, you might chip a nail or something if you had to work for a living....you don't have to tell freight dogs how to do their job. They don't show you how to load bags, tie the fat mans shoes or empty the sh**ter on your pretty new jet.

By the way, whoever said I stopped at 20?

GROW SET AND STRAP IT ON

 

[hammer2]

Cruxx I did grow a pair and stood up and did the right thing. I would'nt let the company treat me like a whore. I have no problems with 14 hours. Its the BS loop holes these companies use, and people like you who don't have a pair big enough to tell them thats it at 14 hrs.
Sorry man forgot that your paid by the mile.

By the way superman try the fractionals, you see its just as tough as freight. Except we are not flying 35 year old junk!

 

[cruxx@9]

You smell something...what is that fish? Is that tuna?

Oh, it's just Hammer

 

[hammer2]

Hey Cruxx lets talk safety, whats your response time? With a 400 hr fo who does the thorough preflight? How long does it take to get wheels up? Tuna... good one.

 

[cruxx@9]

Safety...hmmm never had a problem flying freight. It is as safe as you make it. Like a lot of things. It took as long as it took to get the bird airborne. Sometimes 30 mins, sometimes more, sometimes less. I flew with some really great FO's that were trained to do and did a fantastic job.

If you "what if" anything it won't get off the ground. Again, USA Jet never made me fly an airplane that wasn't good, fly fatigued, or fly into unsafe weater. NEVER NEVER

You didn't like it. Fine. You are happy now in your pretty jet. Great.

me too

 

[pilotyip]

Low time?

What is wrong with a 400 hr F/O? the European Airline all use them, they seem to have a great safety record, the military runs around with 200 F/O's they seem to do a good job? Training not hours define the pilot abilities. BTW Cruxx, ignore him, he probably thinks Spirit is a sucky job also because they hire piltos who have been tainted by YIP.

 

[hammer2]

Yip the navy puts the low time guy in the left seat, while the a/c commander does all the work from the right. Don't make it seem like you were John Glenn!