US Airways Pilot/FA Recall

[Tweaker]

So far, flight ops says that all returning furloughees will go to the 190. Once here, we will be free to bid whatever we can hold. One year seat lock "that can be waived" as necessary. But, to avoid just that situation, they said we're all going to the 190. We'll have to see how long that lasts. The last bid had an additional 60ish vacancies on it...

It is a one way seat lock. Of course mgmt. can waive anything that is binding on us alone. I cannot fathom a set of circumstances that will result in a line qualified E-190 chump like I aspire to become getting a chance to fly metal that pays a liveable wage, when a better solution would be to hire another new chump for that!

"They said." If I had an inch of cawk for every time US Airways "word" came to fruition, I would still be rockin' a pole with no more shadow than that of Spaulding Smails. "Once here, we will be free to bid whatever we can hold." That is simply a bald faced lie. A seat lock that will benefit mgmt and hold you in a E-190 will not be waived unless it is in mgmts best interest. It will not be in their best interest to do so as long as you are a productive pilot and two training iterations can be avoided by keeping you in that A/C and letting some new person get all up in a HAL 9000 (A-320).

There are so very few (64) pilots who are already line qualified on the E-190 (after this Nov bid). They have no seat locks, and they will all be gone ASA'MF'P. After we are all back and basking in the glory of gainful employment, there will be others who come later who snag A-320 slots that we will be unable to secure (west furloughees - good for them, and and new hire pukes). I have already lived this as I, as an Easthole new hire I got to ride bottom bunk on the B-737 list. Fun while it lasted! 12 months will fly by, so I am still mega thrilled, but recognize what will likely take place and accept it.

Anyway, even before 2013, my analysis of the seniority list shows that as long as there is an open bid, anyone who wants to can go to any city and any A/C (other than B767 and A330) they want to! That is great!

Keep your heads up, and get ready for a great decade 2013-2023 in aviation! Those who stuck it out in this soul sucking career are about to taste something good, rather than 2001-2012's sheisser sandwiches. (Insert pilot shortage irrational exuberance mhea)

Five reasons I am optimistic even though my present situtation is a rotting cesspool:
1) Dec. 2012
2) A new contract will result in unity, progress and less infighting, or at least less airborne fecal matter and Cabbage Patch Kid TM hangings.
3) A new contract must result in an increased requirement for swinging dix, as the East contract's work rules are OBSCENE!
4) Age 60+ cockpit pairings will result in an increased need for pilots to cover for these long suffering geezers.
5) Can the economy get any worse? Yes, but if that is the case my job will be the least of my concerns, as there daily life is likely to include roving cannibal gangs wearing assless leather chaps, a dominating Lord Humungous, and simple survival as a daily pastime.

 

[johnnyb]

In the past, once you turned down a recall you were not contacted again until a new round was announced.

Then again, Tempe is running the show now so how they will view it is anyone's guess.

 

[elguapo9]

A seat lock that will benefit mgmt and hold you in a E-190 will not be waived unless it is in mgmts best interest.

You spoke the truth right there brother!

 

[psw757]

It would be nice if the company or union would just officially announce what their plan is for recalls over the next few months, I think it would benefit the company and us furloughed guys in making a quicker decision on whether or not to accept recall. At this point someone has to know what the plan is.

 

[CheapFlyer]

psw757,

It would be nice, but we have all learned by now that in this industry your well-being is the least of managements concern.

They will call you when they need you, and not a day sooner.

 

[psw757]

psw757,

It would be nice, but we have all learned by now that in this industry your well-being is the least of managements concern.

They will call you when they need you, and not a day sooner.

The only reason I made that comment was the company intent on having 2 classes on both sides in Sept. and now that they took so long to fill the sept 6 class on east side there may only be one east class in sept. This is from the scheduling people, apparently the response to the letters weren't coming in as quick as they had hoped. Didn't help that they chose not to send 40 letters out initially.

 

[Tweaker]

You can be forced to show up in as few as 14 days for a training class, accd to the co rep I talked to. Relax! There is plenty of time to fill that and the next class. 9/6/10 is 25+ days away!

 

[Captzaahlie]

It would be nice if the company or union would just officially announce what their plan is for recalls over the next few months, I think it would benefit the company and us furloughed guys in making a quicker decision on whether or not to accept recall. At this point someone has to know what the plan is.

That's just it , there is no real plan.

 

[greyskyracer]

Do returnies still have the option of waiting for a group 2 slot?

 

[MCDU]

Do returnies still have the option of waiting for a group 2 slot?

yes they can. If not enough except the 190 recall, they would have to hire, while still having pilots on furlough.

M

 

[Dornier 335]

Any reference? Would the co contact the miserable hopefuls in the hiring pool?

 

[JudgeSmails218]

Anyone get a certified letter for an October class date yet? If so, approx. where were you on the list? Been pretty quiet this week...

 

[Trogdor]

Updates? Any firm dates for the second classes? How far down the list are they going?

 

[JudgeSmails218]

EAST: Heard they are planning a class of 20 October 4th. I think the Sep class is full. Not sure how many have bypassed so far. Supposedly more info to come in the "Iron Compass" Friday. Have to wait and see...

 

[elguapo9]

EAST: Heard they are planning a class of 20 October 4th. I think the Sep class is full. Not sure how many have bypassed so far....

The word is that they went through number 37 to fill the class of 20. Nobody seems to know if they hit those guys up again for the next class.

 

[Tweaker]

They do indeed have an opportunity to bypass each and every new class date.

 

[Mike November]

Anyone called up there to see if they will eventually pull from the hiring pool or has it been dumped?

 

[LaGarbage Man]

Sorry I can't answer your question about the hiring pool. The first priority is to bring back the remainder of the 224 on furlough. I have heard a "RUMOR" that some of the Chief Pilots are being called in for interview training. If you look at the US Airways career site you will see a large increase in other jobs that they are looking to fill as well. If these indicators turn out to be valid I think US Airways might be gearing up for some limited growth and also preparing for the retirement wave that kicks off in 2012. Just my opinion and as always your mileage may vary but figured some positive rumors might be welcome in this environment.

 

[psw757]

Sorry I can't answer your question about the hiring pool. The first priority is to bring back the remainder of the 224 on furlough. I have heard a "RUMOR" that some of the Chief Pilots are being called in for interview training. If you look at the US Airways career site you will see a large increase in other jobs that they are looking to fill as well. If these indicators turn out to be valid I think US Airways might be gearing up for some limited growth and also preparing for the retirement wave that kicks off in 2012. Just my opinion and as always your mileage may vary but figured some positive rumors might be welcome in this environment.

I have heard from numerous people that many of the east guys hitting 63 after this december have 18+ months of sick time accrued and will start burning it before next summer. Basically early retirement, the 65 wave will begin here gefore dec 2012.

 

[Dornier 335]

Mike November I have sent an email a few weeks ago to the (now former) pilot coordinator DM. His inoffical reply was that he assumes that it'll be quite some time before Airways will call new hires. Additionally, he stated that I was still in good standing and that I will be contacted once the need arises for new hires (His assumption - nothing official!).

Has anyone of the poolies received a letter that the pool had been dumped? I hope not!!

 

[Tweaker]

West - Jr. recalled pilot - P 3051 Frederico
18th on list - 2 bypasses

16 in class 9/6
24 to be in class 10/4

East - Jr. recalled pilot - 3416 - 8284 Nauta
43rd on list - 23 bypasses
20 in class 9/6
20 to be in class 10/25 tentatively.
Any additional classes of 20 may require hiring!!!!

East Oct 4th class postponed to 10/25. I expect this is due to an anticipated training bottleneck in E-190 program. I anticipate slow but consistant hiring until the E190 is staffed with all new (104 pilots) who will then be seat locked. No current 190 pilots are seatlocked, and it is reasonable to assume will GTFO faster than the Dimocraps this November. I also think this will require new hires!

Let's hope for the best!

 

[psw757]

West - Jr. recalled pilot - P 3051 Frederico
18th on list - 2 bypasses

16 in class 9/6
24 to be in class 10/4

East - Jr. recalled pilot - 3416 - 8284 Nauta
43rd on list - 23 bypasses
20 in class 9/6
20 to be in class 10/25 tentatively.
Any additional classes of 20 may require hiring!!!!

East Oct 4th class postponed to 10/25. I expect this is due to an anticipated training bottleneck in E-190 program. I anticipate slow but consistant hiring until the E190 is staffed with all new (104 pilots) who will then be seat locked. No current 190 pilots are seatlocked, and it is reasonable to assume will GTFO faster than the Dimocraps this November. I also think this will require new hires!

Let's hope for the best!

There won't be any hiring off the street until all pilots are offered recall and that includes west pilots being offered positions on the east. This will occur if the east list is exhausted first. At the rate they are sending letters out, it will be a while. As far as west guys taking a recall to the east there are about 15-20 that I think would take it right away.

 

[Tweaker]

psw - Can you explain the means and methods that would allow this, contractually speaking? I know of none, but I hope there is one.

Let's not get into the right and wrong of it, because I completely agree that what you propose should indeed take place.

Would these pilots be at 1st year longevity for pay or 5 year like they should be on the West list. I am afreard that you are confusing fairness with reality. Again, I would totally support what you are suggesting, but there would need to be new contractual language if they are to begin work on the East at anything other than new hire status.

God fear their work environment. They would be the stormtroopers of pilot group integration at the most heated and unresolved time to date!

As far as the East list being nowhere near exhausted, I disagree strongly. There were only 84 East furloughees (as this was strictly a negotiating tactic by our beloved, benevolent management team) and 43 had to be contacted to get a class of 20 to agree to drive the remaining E190's at Mesa wages. 20 more are soon to return, and I believe there will be more in the months to come, when training slots allow it.

Your comment about West returning to an East job, that is speculation twice over. 1st you assume it is an eventuality that USAPA will initiate and complete the necessary contractual additions that permit this. 2ndly you assume that they would return and bring with them their accrued West longevity. Again, to be clear, that is totally appropriate. I am not a poop flinger, but rather a 3rd list puke. If they come to East to start at our $36K salary for first year dudes, then it is not exactly a stellar proposition.

I'm all over it, personally, if only to get my longevity going again, but the 190 rates are dispicable as is the rest of the contract on the East. It remains the most pungent indictment of USAPA for the entire industry as well as just deserts for any of those pilots on the east who wish to deny contractual progress for short term personal gain.

 

[psw757]

psw - Can you explain the means and methods that would allow this, contractually speaking? I know of none, but I hope there is one.

Let's not get into the right and wrong of it, because I completely agree that what you propose should indeed take place.

Would these pilots be at 1st year longevity for pay or 5 year like they should be on the West list. I am afreard that you are confusing fairness with reality. Again, I would totally support what you are suggesting, but there would need to be new contractual language if they are to begin work on the East at anything other than new hire status.

God fear their work environment. They would be the stormtroopers of pilot group integration at the most heated and unresolved time to date!


As far as the East list being nowhere near exhausted, I disagree strongly. There were only 84 East furloughees (as this was strictly a negotiating tactic by our beloved, benevolent management team) and 43 had to be contacted to get a class of 20 to agree to drive the remaining E190's at Mesa wages. 20 more are soon to return, and I believe there will be more in the months to come, when training slots allow it.

Your comment about West returning to an East job, that is speculation twice over. 1st you assume it is an eventuality that USAPA will initiate and complete the necessary contractual additions that permit this. 2ndly you assume that they would return and bring with them their accrued West longevity. Again, to be clear, that is totally appropriate. I am not a poop flinger, but rather a 3rd list puke. If they come to East to start at our $36K salary for first year dudes, then it is not exactly a stellar proposition.

I'm all over it, personally, if only to get my longevity going again, but the 190 rates are dispicable as is the rest of the contract on the East. It remains the most pungent indictment of USAPA for the entire industry as well as just deserts for any of those pilots on the east who wish to deny contractual progress for short term personal gain.

Tweaker,
I'm a third lister as well. The contractual provisions are already in place for what I stated earlier to happen. It is all outlined in the transition agreement, look for yourself. The jist of it is, after recalls on a respective side are completed and other side still has furloughs then company will offer positions to pilots of the other side before hiring off street. This has already happens once back in 2005 with east pilots going west and it was conducted under the provisions of the transition agreement. As far as how this happens and longevity/pay, I have no idea. Our USAPA peeps also gave me the same story I just laid out for you here. no need to get all worked up over it.

Here is an excerpt from the TA and USAPA Website -According to the language contained in the Transition Agreement as well as the opinion of an Arbitrator, pilots hired during the period of Separate Operations (East or West) have seniority rights established in the Operation in which they were furloughed until the parties obtain a single collective bargaining agreement. If, after the Company offers recall to all pilots on their respective seniority lists and positions still exist in the other operation (East or West), then the Company would at that point, pursuant to Section II. B. 10 of the Transition Agreement, be required to offer those positions to the pilots of the other carrier before hiring pilots "off the street."

 

[Lampshade]

When the west recalled some east guys back in 2005 they kept there longevity for pay.

 

[Tweaker]

Well, that is great! I am glad for this. Based on the above, there wil indeed be now street hiring for a long time to come.

If you somehow thought I was against such or this was an example of me getting all worked up, you really have no idea what I am capable of.

Cheerio! It is near 100f again. Time for homebrews at the pool with Miss bebe Tweaklet.

 

[BeCareful!]

I'm all over it, personally, if only to get my longevity going again, but the 190 rates are dispicable as is the rest of the contract on the East. It remains the most pungent indictment of USAPA for the entire industry as well as just deserts for any of those pilots on the east who wish to deny contractual progress for short term personal gain.

Tweak -

ALPA negotiated those rates. Further, what short term gain could any east pilot be getting by, as you say, denying contractual progress? We want a contract, like, yesterday! Your viewpoint here is totally unclear.

 

[Tweaker]

How many times have you read an East pilot gloat over all the retirements and other things that will result in East progression? I know I have many times. It is sickening as a pig wallowing in its own waste with a big grin to not do everything in one's power to endeavor to be rid of the East's 2.5 bankrupcy era contract. It is shameful and is undoubtably an obstacle to pilots all over America when their management can point to the workrules and pay rates current at US Airways East when their pilots want to seek improvements.

Surely you can admit this much? Either way, I'm out for dranks poolside. I have a thirsty 3 y/o and Strawberry Wheat awaits us boff.

 

[Metrojet]

Sorry I can't answer your question about the hiring pool. The first priority is to bring back the remainder of the 224 on furlough. I have heard a "RUMOR" that some of the Chief Pilots are being called in for interview training. If you look at the US Airways career site you will see a large increase in other jobs that they are looking to fill as well. If these indicators turn out to be valid I think US Airways might be gearing up for some limited growth and also preparing for the retirement wave that kicks off in 2012. Just my opinion and as always your mileage may vary but figured some positive rumors might be welcome in this environment.

Lets see here - if a furloughed westie is recalled to an east bid - then we are going to have westies flying with easties who are junior to us - but since they still think they won the lottery that hasn't paid off - the returning "furloughed westie" will consider he is/or senior to the east pilot on the trip. Wow - thats going to make for an interesting CRM study - hope I am not part of it - especially when the westie has his gold/silver/platinum badge hanging to show his contribution to AOL and their lawsuit - a defendant working/ flying with the plaintiff!

Metrojet

 

[Cowboy75]

Lets see here - if a furloughed westie is recalled to an east bid - then we are going to have westies flying with easties who are junior to us. Metrojet

You have nothing to worry about as long as the arbitrated list is used.

Do not fret Metro, it will be the Nic.