US Airways Management and America West Pilots to Open Separate Negotiations

[Captzaahlie]

I actually think this one has six to eight months in it -- maybe more!

PIPE

Well I guess i better sign up on this thread to keep abreast........

 

[linecheck]

SCAB Wars has begun!!!!

http://airbuscaptain2000.phanfare.com/album/581724#imageID=38239530

 

[becket]

SCAB Wars has begun!!!!

http://airbuscaptain2000.phanfare.com/album/581724#imageID=38239530

Love it. If nothing else, it will be a nice addition to the historical archive. USAPA voters will compose the biggest scab list in the history of commercial aviation.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I love it....anyone think there will ever be any unity on the property at LCC.....be it ALPA or USAPA? Either way you are screwed....Either way there won't be any unity.....

Anyone want to deal with seniority now like every other profession......were you can transport you experience and were it doesn't rule your life like it does for us.....

.....never mind...carry on with the attacks while I pop more popcorn....

 

[Captzaahlie]

....ALPA true believers call anyone who disagrees with ALPA "scabs"....this despite the fact there are actual picket line crossing scabs who have held ALPA positions in the past few years.....

...anyone else see the irony......

A true ALPA believer? Sure, thats like believing in Santa Clause and Clinton never really inhaled or boned Monica either....... ALPA did a lot of good in it's day but there's been a lot of conflict of interest regarding in who they represent when it came down to the regionals from where I was from.....

I really do believe it's time for a change, not even considering this East VS. West thing.
(I don't even have a dog in the fight as a mainline new hire, heck I'm junior to every one!).

I just think ALPA has become a big money generating machine, a good old boy club that's filled with secrete agendas and full of expensive meetings sucking down my union dues......
It has gotten out of control and has very little sense of direction.........
I guess this makes me a "scab" according to some (idiots) because I don't think I'm getting my monies worth despite never crossing a picket line.

Starting out with a "clean slate" might do everyone some good if it's possible to sit down at a table and come to some form of an agreement on things. Then again that might be already asking for too much ......:bomb:

 

[becket]

A true ALPA believer? Sure, thats like believing in Santa Clause and Clinton never really inhaled or boned Monica either....... ALPA did a lot of good in it's day but there's been a lot of conflict of interest regarding in who they represent when it came down to the regionals from where I was from.....

I really do believe it's time for a change, not even considering this East VS. West thing.
(I don't even have a dog in the fight as a mainline new hire, heck I'm junior to every one!).

I just think ALPA has become a big money generating machine, a good old boy club that's filled with secrete agendas and full of expensive meetings sucking down my union dues......
It has gotten out of control and has very little sense of direction.........
I guess this makes me a "scab" according to some (idiots) because I don't think I'm getting my monies worth despite never crossing a picket line.

Starting out with a "clean slate" might do everyone some good if it's possible to sit down at a table and come to some form of an agreement on things. Then again that might be already asking for too much ......:bomb:

So the guys that flew struck work aren't scabs? They didn't agree with the union either. I'm sure they felt that they didn't get "their monies worth" either. So I guess you'll get your money from somebody else's pocket? Your version of "change" is being a parasitic scab. Dress it up however you like, but you and your scab kind should stop assuming the rest of us are that stupid, (As*hole).

 

[JoeMerchant]

A true ALPA believer? Sure, thats like believing in Santa Clause and Clinton never really inhaled or boned Monica either....... ALPA did a lot of good in it's day but there's been a lot of conflict of interest regarding in who they represent when it came down to the regionals from where I was from.....

I really do believe it's time for a change, not even considering this East VS. West thing.
(I don't even have a dog in the fight as a mainline new hire, heck I'm junior to every one!).

I just think ALPA has become a big money generating machine, a good old boy club that's filled with secrete agendas and full of expensive meetings sucking down my union dues......
It has gotten out of control and has very little sense of direction.........
I guess this makes me a "scab" according to some (idiots) because I don't think I'm getting my monies worth despite never crossing a picket line.

Starting out with a "clean slate" might do everyone some good if it's possible to sit down at a table and come to some form of an agreement on things. Then again that might be already asking for too much ......:bomb:

:beer:

 

[JoeMerchant]

So the guys that flew struck work aren't scabs? They didn't agree with the union either. I'm sure they felt that they didn't get "their monies worth" either. So I guess you'll get your money from somebody else's pocket? Your version of "change" is being a parasitic scab. Dress it up however you like, but you and your scab kind should stop assuming the rest of us are that stupid, (As*hole).

....what about the scabs (actually crossed a picket line) who have held ALPA positions including CAL MEC Chairman....Want to address that little issue.......

Let me get this straight....Real picket crossing scabs can be ALPA members and hold ALPA positions....but ALPA members who choose to join another union are "scabs".....You ALPA cheerleaders wonder why there is such contempt for this sorry excuse for a union.....

 

[Captzaahlie]

So the guys that flew struck work aren't scabs?

AND JUST EXACTLY WHERE DID I SAY THIS "DEUCE" BAG? (read with the "H" inserted)

I never made any mention of struck work so please get a life...........

:angryfire

As a newhire, who has been in good standing paying his dues for almost 19 years (at another airline) who has had enough of ALPA. I am a scab now because I think another offer is better? AND YOU SAY THAT YOU ARE NOT A CHEERLEADER???uke:
Like I said before, I have nothing to benefit from a new union....
I just don't think I got my monies worth from the old one. WHERE THE HE11 DID I CROSS A PICKET LINE OR PROMOTE STRUCK WORK BECKET?????
PLEASE TELL ME , I'M WAITING..............
:angryfire

JUST FOR THE RECORD I COULDN'T EVEN GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT USAPA , I JUST WANT SOMEONE OTHER THAN ALPA THIS TIME AROUND.

 

[becket]

....what about the scabs (actually crossed a picket line) who have held ALPA positions including CAL MEC Chairman....Want to address that little issue.......

Let me get this straight....Real picket crossing scabs can be ALPA members and hold ALPA positions....but ALPA members who choose to join another union are "scabs".....You ALPA cheerleaders wonder why there is such contempt for this sorry excuse for a union.....

I'm no ALPA cheerleader. CAL scabs should have been tarred and feathered. I never said ALPA was perfect However, ALPA does not exist solely to destroy the careers of an entire, (innocent) airline. USAPA is laser focused on nothing but stripping AWA of their rightful seniority, (and nic agreed).

Any attempt to divert attention away from this fact is just towing the scab line. Just because it's huge, doesn't make them innocent. USAPA supporters are nothing but filthy scabs. Believe me when I say the word is getting out.

 

[becket]

AND JUST EXACTLY WHERE DID I SAY THIS "DEUCE" BAG? (read with the "H" inserted)

I never made any mention of struck work so please get a life...........

:angryfire

As a newhire, who has been in good standing paying his dues for almost 19 years (at another airline) who has had enough of ALPA. I am a scab now because I think another offer is better? AND YOU SAY THAT YOU ARE NOT A CHEERLEADER???uke:
Like I said before, I have nothing to benefit from a new union....
I just don't think I got my monies worth from the old one. WHERE THE HE11 DID I CROSS A PICKET LINE OR PROMOTE STRUCK WORK BECKET?????
PLEASE TELL ME , I'M WAITING..............
:angryfire

JUST FOR THE RECORD I COULDN'T EVEN GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT USAPA , I JUST WANT SOMEONE OTHER THAN ALPA THIS TIME AROUND.

I'll speak slowly. You're obviously having a hard time connecting the dots...There is more than one definition of Scab. It's not just crossing a picket line. You're adamant that "you" should get a better deal? Are you aware that your "better deal" is intended to come at the sole expense of a West pilot?

Stop bullsh*tting me and yourself and look in the mirror.

There's no way to make this whore look respectable. Dress it up however you like Also, i'm not a chearleader, I just know a scab story when I hear one, (sound familiar?)

..."but if USAPA is successful at F***ing over AMW, It's better for me"

BTW, why, after 19 years, did you end up going to work for this disaster? Surely, a "better deal" has presented itself in the last two decades, a deal that wouldn't have made you supportive of scabs.

What Happened? Has your career sucked? Do you now feel entitled to steal somebody else's? I guess that would make you a USAPA member then...nevermind.

 

[Captzaahlie]

I'll speak slowly. You're obviously having a hard time connecting the dots...There is more than one definition of Scab. It's not just crossing a picket line. You're adamant that "you" should get a better deal? Are you aware that your "better deal" is intended to come at the sole expense of a West pilot?

Stop bullsh*tting me and yourself and look in the mirror.

There's no way to make this whore look respectable. Dress it up however you like Also, i'm not a chearleader, I just know a scab story when I hear one, (sound familiar?)

..."but if USAPA is successful at F***ing over AMW, It's better for me"

BTW, why, after 19 years, did you end up going to work for this disaster? Surely, a "better deal" has presented itself in the last two decades, a deal that wouldn't have made you supportive of scabs.

What Happened? Has your career sucked? Do you now feel entitled to steal somebody else's? I guess that would make you a USAPA member then...nevermind.

Like I said Becket I'm junior to everyone!
I'm tired of ALPA and could care or less if I have representation through USAPA , the Teamsters or another in house name. I don't care if it's the AFA for that matter!
ALPA is just a"has been".

After 19 years what the "f" does it matter to you?

Connect these dots "Mr. I need to take cheap shots to make my point". (now you take a good look in the mirror too........)
I won't lower myself to your standards and make any personal insults to you , your mother or your career,......... so go pound or pack some sand Ok?

 

[becket]

Like I said Becket I'm junior to everyone!
I'm tired of ALPA and could care or less if I have representation through USAPA , the Teamsters or another in house name. I don't care if it's the AFA for that matter!
ALPA is just a"has been".

After 19 years what the "f" does it matter to you?

Connect these dots "Mr. I need to take cheap shots to make my point". (now you take a good look in the mirror too........)
I won't lower myself to your standards and make any personal insults to you , your mother or your career,......... so go pound or pack some sand Ok?

The light of truth burns too bright.

good luck, amigo.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

.....doesn't alter the fact that even ALPA doesn't believe in "binding arbitration".....

The Alaska deal is a bit different... and that requires some critical thought.....

With Alaska it was the pilots vs. management.... and no one is threatening to take thier marbles and go home via USAPA... something you are used to doing as a quitter..


The East/West is pilot vs pilot.... something you love to see. You get off on it.....

 

[TWA Dude]

I love it....anyone think there will ever be any unity on the property at LCC.....be it ALPA or USAPA? Either way you are screwed....Either way there won't be any unity.....

Just don't forget there once was unity. We were in joint negotiations for a CBA when the company was profitable. And then, one side withdrew. Which side was that? Oh yeah, the EAST. So if you want to lament the lack of unity look no further than the side that withdrew. The ball is in their court to undo the trouble they've caused. I don't believe indefinite seperate operations is inevitable.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

USAPA or ALPA or...whatever...

All y'all are welcome on my J/S....

 

[vetrider]

AND JUST EXACTLY WHERE DID I SAY THIS "DEUCE" BAG? (read with the "H" inserted)

I never made any mention of struck work so please get a life...........

:angryfire

As a newhire, who has been in good standing paying his dues for almost 19 years (at another airline) who has had enough of ALPA. I am a scab now because I think another offer is better? AND YOU SAY THAT YOU ARE NOT A CHEERLEADER???uke:
Like I said before, I have nothing to benefit from a new union....
I just don't think I got my monies worth from the old one. WHERE THE HE11 DID I CROSS A PICKET LINE OR PROMOTE STRUCK WORK BECKET?????
PLEASE TELL ME , I'M WAITING..............
:angryfire

JUST FOR THE RECORD I COULDN'T EVEN GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT USAPA , I JUST WANT SOMEONE OTHER THAN ALPA THIS TIME AROUND.

I see what you are saying, and I'm all for your "clean slate" theory. Unfortunately, this particular clean slate(usapa) for you comes with an attempt at throwing fine people(AWA) under the bus.

The east pilot usapa supporters I have serious heartburn with. You obviously are not that, but at the same time I feel as if you don't mind throwing the west under the bus just so you can get your clean slate. I know you don't necassarily feel that way directly, but I can't help but feel that's what it boils down to.

Usapa is hardly a clean slate. It could be if it were done later, with a true majority of combined pilots desiring it. But now...well not hardly. It'll be a new slate, but it won't be clean, it'll be ********************ing ugly, all the way around, for everyone involved.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

I love it....anyone think there will ever be any unity on the property at LCC.....be it ALPA or USAPA? Either way you are screwed....Either way there won't be any unity.....

Anyone want to deal with seniority now like every other profession......were you can transport you experience and were it doesn't rule your life like it does for us.....

.....never mind...carry on with the attacks while I pop more popcorn....

IMHO, no there will not be any unity at this company. Putting together this companies employees is now not even an option. West refuses to share cockpit space with east and vice versa.

The real benefits of getting this company up and running are no longer in the plan. The manageers have made their money, the investors have made their money, upper management now has golden parachutes so their is no risk to them or their finances so who loses?? The employees that's who all 70,000 of them. Remove USAir from the industry and capacity is reduced, reduce capacity and the other REAL AIRLINES can begin to prosper.

No one will cry for USAir in fact they will rejoyce at it's long awaited demise. The pilots and flight attendants will be screaming at the unemployment offices across the east and south that they deserve to get their unemployment checks first because they have more seniority .

Talk to an east crew sometime you will be amazed. They simply don't believe that this company can and WILL go out of business! Well to that I offer simply this, ask the former employees of Eastern, Braniff, TWA, Pan Am, ACA/Independence Air if an airline, a big airline can go out of business...

WD.

 

[trainer8]

A true ALPA believer? Sure, thats like believing in Santa Clause and Clinton never really inhaled or boned Monica either....... ALPA did a lot of good in it's day but there's been a lot of conflict of interest regarding in who they represent when it came down to the regionals from where I was from.....

I really do believe it's time for a change, not even considering this East VS. West thing.
(I don't even have a dog in the fight as a mainline new hire, heck I'm junior to every one!).

I just think ALPA has become a big money generating machine, a good old boy club that's filled with secrete agendas and full of expensive meetings sucking down my union dues......
It has gotten out of control and has very little sense of direction.........
I guess this makes me a "scab" according to some (idiots) because I don't think I'm getting my monies worth despite never crossing a picket line.

Starting out with a "clean slate" might do everyone some good if it's possible to sit down at a table and come to some form of an agreement on things. Then again that might be already asking for too much ......:bomb:

Welcome to the show. Don't worry about him..."He's just a mean man who needs a mommy."

T8

 

[Captzaahlie]

The light of truth burns too bright.

good luck, amigo.

whatever dude......
wish you much of the same......

 

[Captzaahlie]

Welcome to the show. Don't worry about him..."He's just a mean man who needs a mommy."

T8

I got soooooooo upset I just might need mine too! :bawling:

LOL, thx, T8

 

[regionaltard]

......this one's going to go double digits.....

You hear me Island Air thread? You're going down!

 

[Captzaahlie]

I see what you are saying, and I'm all for your "clean slate" theory. Unfortunately, this particular clean slate(usapa) for you comes with an attempt at throwing fine people(AWA) under the bus.

The east pilot usapa supporters I have serious heartburn with. You obviously are not that, but at the same time I feel as if you don't mind throwing the west under the bus just so you can get your clean slate. I know you don't necassarily feel that way directly, but I can't help but feel that's what it boils down to.

Usapa is hardly a clean slate. It could be if it were done later, with a true majority of combined pilots desiring it. But now...well not hardly. It'll be a new slate, but it won't be clean, it'll be ********************ing ugly, all the way around, for everyone involved.

Hey Vet,
I understand your point and I honestly don't want to see any west guys thrown under the bus, I have at least half a dozen friends that went over to Am. West years ago. So I can see both sides of the fence better than most!
On a side note: Do you or anyone else here know a Dude by the name of Walt P? His last name sounds like that orange cheese spread... (I just don't want to let the world know that I'm one of his friends..... .) Please PM me if you do, I still owe him a payback for the glass of "Draino" he had the bartender make me on a HPN birthday layover.......
See ya on campus.....

 

[Carl S.]

USAPA is running on pure emotion. The East believes they are intitled to more than they got in the arbitration. ALPA is the lesser of two evils in my book. Emotions will get you to the court house, but the litigation will fall short, just like the arbitration. Talk to people outside the AWA/AAA bubble and see where your emotions are putting you. The only people to make out from this division will be the company and legal teams each side compensates.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

US Airways Management and America West Pilots to Open Separate Negotiations
Friday March 14, 8:00 am ET
PHOENIX, March 14 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- US Airways (NYSE: LCC - News) management received notification today from the America West pilots requesting to commence separate contract negotiations under Section 6 of the Railway Labor Act.
http://www.

Relax, boys...it ain't gonna happen...the latest...

Can we end this thread now?


US Airways rejects pilots' proposal


By Bloomberg News
Saturday, March 15, 2008


US Airways Group Inc. rejected a request to begin talks on a separate contract with pilots who flew for the former America West Airlines before a 2005 merger.


The pilots union told the company Friday that it wanted to start the talks in 30 days to protect their jobs after failed attempts to secure a new, unified labor agreement. Pilots from the two airlines have been in a dispute over how to mesh seniority lists. They suspended talks with the airline in August.

"We believe it to be in the best interest of US Airways and all of our employees to focus on joint negotiations for a single labor agreement as we are now one company," US Airways said in an e-mailed statement. "We are ready to meet with both of our pilot groups to jointly negotiate one single contract." America West pilots say their counterparts in the old US Airways system are being promoted to captain at a much higher rate. They want to begin talks for a new, separate contract instead of waiting until 2009, when the US Airways pilot agreement can be renegotiated.

 

[Eagle757shark]

Relax, boys...it ain't gonna happen...the latest...

Can we end this thread now?


US Airways rejects pilots' proposal


By Bloomberg News
Saturday, March 15, 2008


US Airways Group Inc. rejected a request to begin talks on a separate contract with pilots who flew for the former America West Airlines before a 2005 merger.


The pilots union told the company Friday that it wanted to start the talks in 30 days to protect their jobs after failed attempts to secure a new, unified labor agreement. Pilots from the two airlines have been in a dispute over how to mesh seniority lists. They suspended talks with the airline in August.

"We believe it to be in the best interest of US Airways and all of our employees to focus on joint negotiations for a single labor agreement as we are now one company," US Airways said in an e-mailed statement. "We are ready to meet with both of our pilot groups to jointly negotiate one single contract." America West pilots say their counterparts in the old US Airways system are being promoted to captain at a much higher rate. They want to begin talks for a new, separate contract instead of waiting until 2009, when the US Airways pilot agreement can be renegotiated.

Thanks for the update.

 

[Soulfly]

FAR from over.

The Transition Agreement kept our right to section 6 alive and well.

Parker will get pounded by the NMB if he fails to negotiate with us. He has a legal obligation to negatiate with us in good faith. Maybe he will just take a page from the east and blow off a signed legal document.

Actually, I think that would work in our favor.

Peace

 

[PositiveRate]

Bloomberg was wrong on that report. They are obligated by law to negotiate.

 

[Deadalus]

Of course Parker wants to wait it out. USAPA went to management and promised to accept cost neutral if the company helps to throw out the arbitration. These East scumbags make scabs look good. Our reps being thrown out of west crew rooms by management wasn't the only reason we went section 6. We had no choice. Parker has to negotiate with the west now and the East gets to enjoy their contract until 2009 + a couple years. Just incredible, no integrity or brains.

 

[Dizel8]

No dog in this fight, but I certainly consider the actions of the AAA pilots to be reprehensible.

From my perspective, it would seem that the AWA pilots have done what was asked of them, but the AAA pilots wants more, much, much more.

The AAA pilots want it all, and they want to skrew the AWA pilots for all they can, if they can get DOH and flush all of the AWA pilots down the list, they will be overjoyed.

I personally hope, that the AWA pilots prevail and that the Nic award stands.