US Airways' go-it-alone approach paying off

[johnnyb]

Lets hear about the Corvette....

 

[Sandhawk]

CHAOS?? Haven't heard a thing about it....but then I'm not plugged into the direct line of whatever goes on over here.


Unfortunately your opinion of the name changing and such, doesn't mesh with the courts or simple contract law it seems. I guess you can argue up through the SC, but it may just be to no avail.

so your a '99 hire that is licking his chops at moving into the area of a '84 hire on the east side. guess your missing that left seat that the lottery ticket said you deserve?

3 Questions for you -

- What year were you hired?

- Were you an active pilot at the time of the merger?

- What seat do you think you deserve?



Guess you are missing your lottery ticket - I see how it goes.....

:laugh:

 

[Crzipilot]

Vette is a '58 vette, been sitting up at my father in laws property, He sorta "forgot about it" Kinda rough shape, but looks like it might be salvagable....


Answers..

1. '99 - so Sr, to quite a few AWA f/o's

2. Yup

3. What seat do I deserve??? Deserve Capt, when MY DOH allows such. Currently I'd say f/o.

Didn't get a lottery ticket, simply believe that those on the east side should be able to capture the attrition from the east side. I don't believe those on the west should jump ahead and grab onto the back of that train that's about to happen. As to the argument that the west saved east, blah blah, east didn't have the money. Guess what. The east didn't go away, so it's a non starter, what happened is what happened and here we are.

 

[cactusboy53]

Vette is a '58 vette, been sitting up at my father in laws property, He sorta "forgot about it" Kinda rough shape, but looks like it might be salvagable....

Cool! There are several places that sell OEM hardward for all years (for restoration).

I picked up a 1976 (C3 body) a month and a half ago. 83,000 miles. Body is an 8 or so, Interior 8+, Engine & Tranny @ 7+. Lots of little things to fix up. If you want the web sites for the OEM sites, let me know.

 

[St. Nic]

Vette is a '58 vette, been sitting up at my father in laws property, He sorta "forgot about it" Kinda rough shape, but looks like it might be salvagable....


Answers..

1. '99 - so Sr, to quite a few AWA f/o's

2. Yup

3. What seat do I deserve??? Deserve Capt, when MY DOH allows such. Currently I'd say f/o.

Didn't get a lottery ticket, simply believe that those on the east side should be able to capture the attrition from the east side. I don't believe those on the west should jump ahead and grab onto the back of that train that's about to happen. As to the argument that the west saved east, blah blah, east didn't have the money. Guess what. The east didn't go away, so it's a non starter, what happened is what happened and here we are.

Sorry to hear about your situation, CRZ. How long were you furloughed?

 

[denny]

ahhhh. The life of a scab! Another mint julep?

 

[Carl S.]

So a 1999 hire was active when the merger happen in 2005? I thought the East was down to 1988 and moving to lower DOH pilots to hit the street in 2005. Am I wrong or is this wishfull think from the East side.

 

[Guppiedriver]

So a 1999 hire was active when the merger happen in 2005? I thought the East was down to 1988 and moving to lower DOH pilots to hit the street in 2005. Am I wrong or is this wishfull think from the East side.

Nope....re-read his post, he was furloughed.

Didn't get a lottery ticket, simply believe that those on the east side should be able to capture the attrition from the east side. I don't believe those on the west should jump ahead and grab onto the back of that train that's about to happen.

It's interesting that you want to capture your attrition, yet the C&R's in USAPA's DOH proposal allows for easties to take 50% of our upgrades.

 

[Crzipilot]

Cool! There are several places that sell OEM hardward for all years (for restoration).

I picked up a 1976 (C3 body) a month and a half ago. 83,000 miles. Body is an 8 or so, Interior 8+, Engine & Tranny @ 7+. Lots of little things to fix up. If you want the web sites for the OEM sites, let me know.

Well this thing is no where near an 8 HAHA....but it's a shell, so gonna see if or what we are going to do with it. Currently have two mustang and a jeep projects that are constantly on going. Have found a bunch of the OEM sites and such, so we'll see.

 

[Crzipilot]

It's interesting that you want to capture your attrition, yet the C&R's in USAPA's DOH proposal allows for easties to take 50% of our upgrades.

Truthfully I think I scanned the C&R's once, and don't even know where they are right now. Part of the reason is, the possibility of those changing and not really applicable until a contract is finalized which contains them. Point me to where they are and I'll go look at them again.

My thoughts on the C/R's is they should be fair to both sides, however they are constructed, taking into account the possibility of expansion and retraction, vacancies, attrition etc on both sides......

 

[Guppiedriver]

Truthfully I think I scanned the C&R's once, and don't even know where they are right now. Part of the reason is, the possibility of those changing and not really applicable until a contract is finalized which contains them. Point me to where they are and I'll go look at them again.

My thoughts on the C/R's is they should be fair to both sides, however they are constructed, taking into account the possibility of expansion and retraction, vacancies, attrition etc on both sides......

I found them on USAPA's website....can't remember where.

If US Airways had not merged with AWA and they had somehow managed to avoid liquidation, when do you think you would have been recalled?

 

[TWA Dude]

My thoughts on the C/R's is they should be fair to both sides, however they are constructed, taking into account the possibility of expansion and retraction, vacancies, attrition etc on both sides......

Funnily enough, you and George Nicolau are in agreement here.

So what do you call it when instead of a neutral deciding one side tries to cram their version of 'fair' C&Rs down the gullet of the other: DFR II. Do you feel lucky?

 

[Whine Lover]

And at UsAirways...well

 

[Crzipilot]

Truthfully. Around the same time frame. What I saw. Was an airline being
Managed down for the merger. Which I think was ongoing for a year maybe two as they were packaging it up. There was a reason the target floated from we need a contract comparable to this airline....down to finally we need cuts down to awest contract levels. I believe us was run incredibly thin in preparation of the merger. Hence the disparity in staffing levels. Prior to age 65, if everything remained static, I think I was projected to see the left seat around 2014-15. Put the nic in there and I believe it's. 5-7 years later

 

[Crzipilot]

Funnily enough, you and George Nicolau are in agreement here.

So what do you call it when instead of a neutral deciding one side tries to cram their version of 'fair' C&Rs down the gullet of the other: DFR II. Do you feel lucky?

So since you guys have been joining and have reps. Why not look at the c&r. Take what you find as unfair and have your reps present revised ones at a future meeting. This may open the door to more reasonableness from both sides and have an end result that east and west can live with.

A few I have in mind but typing on an iPhone sucks.......

So does the west feel like being reasonable or do they want to continue to throw lawsuits around?????

Imagine that presenting your own c&rs. As a starter and coming to an agreement would nueturalize the companies recent delay tactics.

How bout protecting the
West sides airplanes and hours left seat spots from the t/a. Anything above that either side is open bid for whomever.
Furloughs .... Dunno. Furloughs are done even across both sides. With reduction of hours having to be theoretically split evenly east and west to determine howany from each side must leave? Any growth or new ac is fair game to whomever


Just some ideas late at night

 

[TWA Dude]

So does the west feel like being reasonable or do they want to continue to throw lawsuits around?????

How can you type that with a straight face? Right after the Nic came out your MEC sued our MEC. From that point on all unreasonableness is from the East. What you want now is extortion.

Furloughs are done even across both sides.

furloughs are done in reverse seniority order. What you propose is out of seniority furloughs. Won't happen. That's why C&Rs are irrelevant.

You just have to face it: the Nic list was obtained through a fair and impartial process. Right now we have only the tyranny of the majority. The West can propose all we like but in the end the East can cram down whatever you like. That's why there's a DFR issue and it isn't going away. You want end this impasse? Easy: accept the Nic and we'll unite to get the best possible contract. Delay hurts y'all more than us.

 

[Crzipilot]

Well how can you say all unreasonableness comes from the east after that post?


As to the furloughs. Sure they are done by seniority, historically, but what prevents us from thinking outside if the box?

Either way it's pretty ibvios that a determined insistence on the nic is going to leave us right where we are? Reasonable huh?

 

[TWA Dude]

Well how can you say all unreasonableness comes from the east after that post?

Are you living in a vacuum? Did you not notice that the West has lost its ability to bargain as equals? Your proposals are irrelevant. With two MECs there was at least a chance for bilateral reasonableness. USAPA took that away PERMANENTLY. You're trying to turn the clock back but it cannot be done.

As to the furloughs. Sure they are done by seniority, historically, but what prevents us from thinking outside if the box?

Um, well your C&BLs for one. Cleary for two. But good luck with that anyway.

Either way it's pretty ibvios that a determined insistence on the nic is going to leave us right where we are? Reasonable huh?

Correct. Insisting on upholding agreements is definitely reasonable. Trying to throw out the Nic and impose your own list is not only unreasonable but it violates the law.

 

[Crzipilot]

Uhmmm...do you have reps in PHX??? Can they not bring ideas to the BPR, can that not be taken under consideration, and possibly implemented? Could or would these ideas from the west, possibly not satisfy those on the west?

You see it as not being able to negotiate, but if your ideas for C/R's can be implemented would that not be the same as having them negotiated?

Either way, just throwing ideas out there.....obviously something has to break the stale mate, but your obviously not willing to look for other ways besides an insistance for the NIC....

good luck with your endeavor...

 

[TWA Dude]

Uhmmm...do you have reps in PHX??? Can they not bring ideas to the BPR, can that not be taken under consideration, and possibly implemented?

Sure, as long as the rest of the BPR doesn't disagree -- which they will.

You see it as not being able to negotiate, but if your ideas for C/R's can be implemented would that not be the same as having them negotiated?

We can present all the ideas we like. The rest of the BPR will outvote us and end of story. There's a reason why ALPA Merger Policy had the two MECs negotiating as equals.

Either way, just throwing ideas out there.....obviously something has to break the stale mate, but your obviously not willing to look for other ways besides an insistance for the NIC....

Correct. We are entitled to the Nicolau list and if we don't get it it's DFR II. It's all up to you.

Now seriously, I appreciate that you're at least attempting to sound reasonable. But you're ignoring reality. We played by the rules and the East hasn't. We get that you don't think the Nic is fair but that's the risk you take in binding arbitration. There simply isn't any do-over. You don't get to change the rules in the middle of the game then tell us we're being unreasonable for not going along. You have no right to ignore the Nic and that's why we're in court.

 

[WickedPissa]

Tired of this. What if DOH stands when a TA finally arrives. East has more voters. "Third listers" should vote yes to get an hourly rate that can feed their family unless they have family/spouse/other on the west side. That would take the majority. End of story.

 

[Carl S.]

DOH is never going to arrive, but keep dreaming those USAPA induced DREAMS all you want. Try to stay in touch with reality once and awhile and do not use USAPA as your only source of info, unless you want to get CIRP involved once again.

 

[WickedPissa]

At this moment, is it not DOH?

 

[Cowboy75]

At this moment, is it not DOH?

Nope.

 

[WickedPissa]

What is it?​

 

[Cowboy75]

Which list has the company on record saying is the accepted list from court documents?

 

[WickedPissa]

DOH is never going to arrive, but keep dreaming those USAPA induced DREAMS all you want. Try to stay in touch with reality once and awhile and do not use USAPA as your only source of info, unless you want to get CIRP involved once again.

"once and awhile" ?

 

[WickedPissa]

Which list has the company on record saying is the accepted list from court documents?

I honestly don't know. I don't waste my free time researching company quotes on record. Why is the DOH thing back in court again? Would seem as if it were date of hire or west wouldn't be so sad right now.

 

[Cowboy75]

I honestly don't know. I don't waste my free time researching company quotes on record. Why is the DOH thing back in court again? Would seem as if it were date of hire or west wouldn't be so sad right now.

I would not say anyone on the west side is sad. I think the mood over here is energized since the 4th's ruling. Fund raising is going well to support active and pending legal action.

Word has it that there is a coalition of east and west pilots for a card drive to change bargaining agents.

What have you heard?

 

[St. Nic]

Word has it that there is a coalition of east and west pilots for a card drive to change bargaining agents.

What have you heard?

Ha! Chipper and his little clan will never get any support for ALPA- keep swimming up stream with that buddy!