US Airways' go-it-alone approach paying off

[St. Nic]

I imagine many of the other airline supporters, have also only heard the one side... IE "those Eastholes want date of hire so they can all come out west and take our jobs, look how a date of hire list would put us all at the bottom"
This pilot then looks at that list, and says "yes, I guess DOH would screw you poor west folk".
Those pilots were not told about fences or restrictions of any kind to prevent just such an injustice, so of course when they hear all the horrors of such a thing they are supportive.
What they are not told is about the 17 year never furloughed guy that would be junior to a guy still in ground school at the time. They are never told what would happen to the international flying, and how it would all go to the West pilots. (as it will anyway in just a few years).
Its all like a sales pitch (like the trial in PHX) If you give only one side of a slanted story, the opinions from that result will be slanted.

GREAT POST!!!
There are two sides to every story and for some reason the west seems to discount everyone.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

USAPA is getting tremendous support from all over the industry. You west guys are on an island by yourselves

Oh the irony.
Cobraair75drvr is a former NW (now DL) pilot!
Everyone thinks you guys are scum. Enjoy it. It's the only prestige that comes with being an easthole!

 

[Bringupthebird]

Those pilots were not told about fences or restrictions of any kind to prevent just such an injustice, ...

Do they ask, "Who got to work on the conditions and restrictions? Are they developed with input from both sides? And why do such conditions and restrictions dissolve upon the very events when they are needed most?"

No, the Cleary Condom offers no protection.

 

[get2flyin]

I imagine many of the other airline supporters, have also only heard the one side... IE "those Eastholes want date of hire so they can all come out west and take our jobs, look how a date of hire list would put us all at the bottom"
This pilot then looks at that list, and says "yes, I guess DOH would screw you poor west folk".
Those pilots were not told about fences or restrictions of any kind to prevent just such an injustice, so of course when they hear all the horrors of such a thing they are supportive.
What they are not told is about the 17 year never furloughed guy that would be junior to a guy still in ground school at the time. They are never told what would happen to the international flying, and how it would all go to the West pilots. (as it will anyway in just a few years).
Its all like a sales pitch (like the trial in PHX) If you give only one side of a slanted story, the opinions from that result will be slanted.

Or...the West pilots could tell them, "even the guys below the bottom 1%, the furloughees, thought THEY should be able to come back and take ALL the new Captain slots but they lost their ass in binding arbitration. Then they started the East Pilots Social Club (AKA USAPA) and now think simply walling the group that saved their ass into Phoenix is equitable with the C&R's they created".

News flash: The rest of the industry had been counting the days until USAir was suppose to liquidate. They were disappointed when USAir got saved at the last second. While nobody (*including myself...and I mean this without any sarcasm) wanted to see the pilot group on the street, nobody outside of USAir thought USAir was that great. USAir had gone to hell in a hand basket and was taking the rest of the industry with it. Like cannibals, they would have feasted on the bones of USAir and the furloughs that later occurred at other legacy carriers probably wouldn't have happened.

So get over yourself. The rest of the industry doesn't see you as the champion for the little guy. They see you as someone who was about to die of starvation, and now thinks you are entitled to steal off of everyone else's plate.

 

[TWA Dude]

Those pilots were not told about fences or restrictions of any kind to prevent just such an injustice, ...

Are you referring to the infamous Conditions and Restrictions the Easties came up with that the Westies have no input on and in any case are irrelevant because there's no substitute for a seniority number? Fences don't protect from furloughs.

DFR-II. Do you feel lucky?

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Yaaaawwwwnnnnn....I'm going to bed....I'll check tomorrow to see how this little "love fest" turns out

 

[cactusboy53]

...What they are not told is about the 17 year never furloughed guy that would be junior to a guy still in ground school at the time. They are never told what would happen to the international flying, and how it would all go to the West pilots. (as it will anyway in just a few years)....

FR8mastr;
I will give you a B+ for your creative writing skills. Your content could not be much further from the truth. You are referring to pilots Odell & Colello. Odell was a new hire at AWA and in ground school when Doug Parker announced the acquisition of the former US Air. He said such acquisition/ merger would be conducted through financing and using the former AWA holdings company. At the time of the announcement pilot Colello was indeed furloughed from US Air and had little to no chance of returning to work at the old US Air.

Pilot Colello had 16 years and about 10 months of "date of hire" seniority, but in fact had substantially less in "length of service" (I believe close to 8 years, certainly less than 10).

The arbitrator asked the east pilots time, and time again to come off of DOH and seek some sort of middle ground. One way to go would have been asking for consideration of length of service. The time for that was when we were doing the negotiation, mediation, and arbitration.

With regard to the last highlighted statement, ALL AWA pilots will not run to the east coast for the international flying. You should ask us when you jumpseat some time. I would guess a couple of hundred. The rest are firmly ensconced in the desert way of life.

Was the list fair? NO. Pilot McNerlin (#1 AWA) should have been at least #2 on the combined list. Arbitrator Nicolau decided to create an artificial fence by placing the first 517 positions to the first 517 east pilots. Not a problem, we agreed to the process and are willing to abide by Arbitrator Nicolau's (and the two pilot neutral's) list.

 

[johnnyb]

Odell was a new hire at AWA and in ground school

Pilot Colello had 16 years and about 10 months of "date of hire" seniority, but in fact had substantially less in "length of service" (I believe close to 8 years, certainly less than 10).

He was hired 7/88 and furloughed 10/03 - 15+ years

 

[cactusboy53]

He was hired 7/88 and furloughed 10/03 - 15+ years

Jonny;
Thanks for the correction. That information was not available to me at the time of my post (hence my guess). Again, while this pilot HAD 15 years LOS he was furloughed at the time of the "merger" announcement. US Air was not getting new aircraft, not growing, and not upgrading or hiring. That same pilot came back to a NEW carrier.

Let's guess about 4-5 years total OUT. (03-07?). During that time pilot O'dell (who brought a job to the game) reamained gainfully employed.

Regards.

 

[Guppiedriver]

He was hired 7/88 and furloughed 10/03 - 15+ years

As you pointed out, Colello was furloughed as of 2003. As a result of the merger he was recalled to the bottom of your list. On the Nicolau list, Colello was placed at the bottom of the combined list of employed pilots. How is that not fair?

Once all of the furloughed pilots are recalled and hiring resumes in PHX, DOH with USAPA's C&R's would allow east pilots to bid 50% of the captain vacancies in PHX. At that point, Colello could hold a captain's slot on the A320 in PHX. Explain to me how that's fair.