US Airways' go-it-alone approach paying off

[Crzipilot]

Judge Tashima says......

"we leave USAPA to bargain in good faith pursuant to its DFR, with the interests of all members— both East and West — in mind, under pain of an unquestionably ripe DFR suit, once a contract is ratified."

Yes, it will be unquestionably ripe............

Define Ripeness within the context of federal law........


The rationale behind the ripeness limitation is to prevent the courts from entering a controversy before it has solidified or before other available remedies have been exhausted. In disputes involving regulations or decisions promulgated by administrative agencies, a controversy is not considered ripe until the agency's decision has been formalized and the challenging parties have felt its effects.


so from this excerpt it basically says that the situation must be solidified and the parties have felt their effects.

As noted, when a CBA is voted in, the possibility of a DFR case becomes ripe. As in it's solidified, and either party will feel the effect of such negotiations.

Now That passage up there definitely does not say, The case will be RIPE and you WILL PREVAIL. No, just says that at the time a CBA is ratified, you can bring your little problem to the courts, and let them look at it and see if it's worthy of them hearing it......


Do ya feel lucky???? Got a spare 2 million????

 

[TWA Dude]

Do ya feel lucky????

We have the law on our side. Shouldn't need luck.

Got a spare 2 million????

Spare? No. To fight your tyranny? You betcha!

 

[get2flyin]

"3We do not address the thorny question of the extent to which the Nicolau Award is binding on USAPA. We note, as the district court recognized, that USAPA is at least as free to abandon the Nicolau Award as was its predecessor, ALPA. The dissent appears implicitly to assume that the Nicolau Award, the product of the internal rules and processes of ALPA, is binding on USAPA."

Even the 9th says, We aren't going to say whether it's binding, or approach that issue, as the NIC award was a product of the INTERNAL rules and Processes of ALPA.

So, according to the 9th, "USAPA is at least as free to abandon the Nicolau Award as was its predecessor, ALPA". I don't think anybody out West is disputing that. So, remind me again..was ALPA free to renegotiate the Nic award? Uh, No..they were not. So...USAPA has the same right to renegotiate the award as ALPA did. Which is a fancy way of saying, USAPA can't mess with it. but.......

So do ya feel lucky? Got a spare 2 million laying around?

To defend our careers from a pilot group trying to recapture their glory days by stealing mine? Yeah, we can come up with the cash. And don't fool yourself into thinking only a splinter group of West pilots support AOL. It's pretty much everybody on the West.

 

[Crzipilot]

yes or no.

When alpa receives a seniority arbitration back. And the powers to be determine it does not fit the criteria of the alpa standards. What do they do then?

Is it in the INTERNAL alpa policy that they can reject an award?

Yes or No?

 

[Crzipilot]

To defend our careers from a pilot group trying to recapture their glory days by stealing mine? Yeah, we can come up with the cash. And don't fool yourself into thinking only a splinter group of West pilots support AOL. It's pretty much everybody on the West.

Nope not trying to steal yours. Feel free to stay out west and fly your flying out there. Oh yeah, that currently includes about 24% of the East flying....Hmmm... What would your list look like needing 24% less pilots? I think you'd be prime picking for republic if it wasn't for the hook up back east...

 

[Guppiedriver]

Why don't you include the quote that stipulates that a contract not including the NIC, in itself is not necessarily a cause for DFR lawsuit?

Kinda puts your quote into context....

No it doesn't......

Cleary has already stated that the seniority list that was passed to the company in 2008 will not be altered. So, if a CBA with that list gets ratified, USAPA will be unquestionably guilty of DFR.

I wonder..... if I change my name, do you think I could get out of all of my obligations? You know......like my mortgage, auto loans, credit cards. Hmmm.... it just might work......what's Sehams number?

 

[Crzipilot]

guppie,

You got it figured out. ..... Buddy of mine that runs collections for toyota finance runs into that problem all the time. You'd be amazed at the number of people with new a new lexus seem to disappear.

come to think of it...think he mighta mentioned your name. Oh no that's right. That was the story about the wasted lottery ticket....... Oh well..

 

[Crzipilot]

Here's an idea. Parker has the nic list under his pillows. He gets a CBA with section 22 that states the following:

"The Pilots' System Seniority List, as established by the USAPA constitution and bylaws, dated October 31, 2010, shall constitute the official Pilots' System
Seniority List."

Now, Parker looks at that list he is handed to him, and lo behold, it satisfies the T/A guidelines and doesn't cost him anything. He really doesn't care who is in front of the airplanes as long as someone is there, and it doesn't cost him any more than what it's gonna cost him.

So he looks at them and says. Hey, what about this internal alpa process that produced a list, that I've been sleeping on for 2 years???

Answer: That was an alpa deal. Alpa is gone, so go ahead and keep sleeping on it, you can use this list for now on.

......


Not really sure why you guys are getting hung up on some list that the PROCESS INTERNAL TO ALPA, created. You see. Alpa created the list. Handed it over as their proffer for section 22. Company said. Yup, it's a no cost list to us. we'll take it.

Meanwhile, Alpa is gone. USAPA, comes along and says, hey, Section 22, here is how we are gonna have it. Company says, Yup, it's a no cost list to us. we'll take it......

INTERNAL TO ALPA. Yes it's Binding to the AAA MEC. go talk to those fellas, oh right, they matter not one iota any more. Oh well. good try.


See they forgot to tell you, only 1 year time frame to cash in those lottery tickets...

 

[get2flyin]

Wow! Crzi, you've had quite a busy afternoon. Allow me to respond.

yes or no.

When alpa receives a seniority arbitration back. And the powers to be determine it does not fit the criteria of the alpa standards. What do they do then?

Is it in the INTERNAL alpa policy that they can reject an award?

Yes or No?

ALPA (notice how I capitalized it, it's an abbreviation) does have the ability to reject an arbitrated seniority award if it can be shown the award was achieved in an illegal manner, then Yes it can be thrown out. You may recall the East immediately challenged the award and found there were no improprieties in the way it was done. They found Nic met *ALL* of his requirements. As such: *ALPA could NOT reject the award*. Sadly, that jackass of an ALPA president tried to interfere with the award. That was completely outside of his authority and he had NO right to attempt to convince the West to return and use the Nic as a "West opening position". That is the reason there IS a defined merger process. So nobody can say "I personally don't like the outcome so it isn't binding. Had you Easties not thrown them out, we would have destroyed ALPA in Court.

Nope not trying to steal yours. Feel free to stay out west and fly your flying out there. Oh yeah, that currently includes about 24% of the East flying....Hmmm... What would your list look like needing 24% less pilots? I think you'd be prime picking for republic if it wasn't for the hook up back east...

Nice cheap shot with Republic. Classy. Let's move passed that. Use your head, genius. If the West had "stolen" 24% of your flying, they'd have had to HIRE pilots instead of furloughing nearly 2x the number you did...and you're 2x the size of the West.

At least try to make shooting down your USAPA propaganda interesting. What other garbage can you come up with.

 

[MCDU]

Listen, Everything you Westies predicted on here so far has not happened.
Enjoy PHX, that is what you will get. Wanna come East. It will be DOH. I guarantee it.

M