US Air firing pilot who's gun discharged

[satpak77]

For the real story, or at least the investigation, I recommend everyone start submitting FOIA Act requests, and get back to us.

http://www.tsa.gov/research/foia/foia_requests.shtm

http://www.dot.gov/foia/

with that, I go to bed, resting well that the fact that bullets flying around in the cockpit, however accidental, is not something to be downplayed.

 

[PCL_128]

The facts are known to those that have a need to know. In other words, if you're not an FFDO or someone representing the pilot, then you don't have a need to know. No FOIA request will help you get the info, because information related to the FFDO program is considered SSI.

I agree with the other posters that the pilot did not deserve to be terminated. Unfortunately, uSAPa will not be much help for him.

 

[SaturnPilot]

ALPA, FFDOA, etc have been stating for a while that the carriage procedures are bound to end up in an accidental discharge someday. The procedures are faulty...could have happened to anybody. Combine those procedures with the new holster and there you go. Termination is obviously way overboard here

 

[ExAF]

Be Afraid

Airline management teams have never warmed to the idea of armed pilots. They've always seen it as a liability issue and have assumed they'd be indemnified in the event of another terrorits attack.

And....They are probably afraid what might happen to them if they push one just a little too far over the edge!

 

[PHXFLYR]

I actually expressed no opinion. I asked a question. If you shoot a hole in a company aircraft, you're going to get to talk to HR. That meeting is where the value of ALPA is, but many assume they'll never find themselves in such a situation. From what I hear, there is pretty strict protocal for handling the weapon in flight and maybe things weren't up to SOPs at the time of the 'incident'. I will, however, call BS that ALPA denied to defend him. I'd like to see proof on that as I doubt it was the case.

If you get sick, hurt or diagnosed, have something going on at home that makes you unfit to fly, get a number from ATC, have a runway incursion, etc etc....there were immediate avenues for help. We're on our own now.

We certainly are my friend. We certainly are .....And that's what 2723 blithering idiots back east fail to realize and one of the things the average ALPA member seems to forget. Your ALPA dues gives you access to services you hope you never have to use in your career for what essentially is a flat rate (ie your monthly dues) I shudder to think what all this protection would cost "al la carte" if you had to purchase it on your own, if it can be purchased at all. And I have grave doubts about USAPA's claim that they will be able to deliver any of them in a "seamless" fashion as they claim....


PHXFLYR

 

[spitfire1940]

Why couldn't they just kick him out of the FFDO program and let him keep his job?

By the way, guns don't go off "accidentally" all by themselves. They go off when careless people "accidentally" keep a round in the chamber, "accidentally" take the safety off and "accidentally"' pull the trigger.

Still, taking away the livelihood of a 55-year-old pilot who, for all we know, has never had a problem with his PRIMARY job is just ridiculous.

 

[pilotss]

ALPA, FFDOA, etc have been stating for a while that the carriage procedures are bound to end up in an accidental discharge someday. The procedures are faulty...could have happened to anybody. Combine those procedures with the new holster and there you go. Termination is obviously way overboard here

Exactly!

1. Misfires happen all the time and there are not many who have handled a gun that have not had a misfire. It happens on the ranges and it happens on the streets and in your lifetime, if you handle a gun, you have a good chance of having one. The mounting clasp is close to the seatbelt which is easily caught. Next time you fly with an FFDO ask him about wearing his gun and the seatbelt and how easy it is to get caught on it.

It would be nice to show the statistics of a police officer and misfires to pilots. I think you would see we are not out of line.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Is there a better gun that could have been selected as the FFDO weapon that might have had the safety features that would have prevented this recent incident from occuring ?


PHXFLYR

 

[SaturnPilot]

it's more a problem of the holster and the "donning" procedures than the gun

 

[AKAAB]

Time for all of the FFDO's to organize a day to leave their weapons home in protest...(kidding!)

Could the fact that is was reported to have happened at 8,000ft - under sterile cockpit - be relevant? One would think any handling of the weapon would be best done prior to sterile cockpit or on the ground.

There obviously is a lot more to this story that we think.

:uzi:

 

[PlaneDrvr]

Why couldn't they just kick him out of the FFDO program and let him keep his job?

By the way, guns don't go off "accidentally" all by themselves. They go off when careless people "accidentally" keep a round in the chamber, "accidentally" take the safety off and "accidentally"' pull the trigger.

Still, taking away the livelihood of a 55-year-old pilot who, for all we know, has never had a problem with his PRIMARY job is just ridiculous.

FYI,

Not an FFDO, but do know that SOP requires the firearm to always be kept with a live round in the chamber; and the gun has the LEM, meaning it does NOT have a 'safety'

That said, 'accidents' do happen; different kinds of accidents happen to everyone at some point, Not a reason to fire someone.

For what its worth.

DA

 

[WateryGrave]

The fact of the matter is that the guy screwed up. He did not follow SOP and he shot a hole in the side of the airplane. Its not the holster, or the lock, or the SOP's fault. It's his and his alone. I'm not saying he should be fired, I'm just tired of everyone trying to lay blame on everything except the pilot. If you follow the SOP's, this will not happen.

It sucks however that his company and ALPA and shortly USAPA are all throwing him under the bus. He should be thrown out of the FFDO program I feel, but not fired.

 

[wscrj]

Gentlemen,

If you're thinking of posting information in a "SOP says..." format, please consider not posting it. SSI should actually mean something.

Yes, no doubt, the guy in question screwed up. Final responsibility lies with him; it's a structure I'm sure we're all familiar with.

However, like any accident, there we're contributing factors. These factors need to be identified (privately, please) and mitigated to help prevent a similiar situation from occurring again. Also, a process we're all familiar with.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Still, taking away the livelihood of a 55-year-old pilot who, for all we know, has never had a problem with his PRIMARY job is just ridiculous.

I'm guessing his management felt that shooting a hole through one of their airplanes while flying it constitutes a "...problem with his PRIMARY job..."

Just a guess...

 

[CopilotDoug]

...Your ALPA dues gives you access to services...

Yes, yes, we know..."Access to services which
MIGHT get your case resolved before you retire."

Disclaimer: ALPA will not represent you unless it's a high profile case.

Next!