US Air firing pilot who's gun discharged

[TWA Dude]

hahaha

USAPA came though and got his job back.

I'll presume he isn't getting back-pay and no doubt the FFDO program won't let him have another gun. I'm satisfied.

 

[GuppyWN]

The program and the way it is managed and administered sucks! No real law enforcement officer should have to carry around their gun in a lock box! So, anytime you subject someone to repeatedly handling the firearm, the chances of an AD increase. SOP's or not! The weapon should be holstered when they get dressed for work, and stay there until you need to draw it to kill someone.

Now THAT I completely agree with.

Gup

 

[NCFlyer]

The program and the way it is managed and administered sucks! No real law enforcement officer should have to carry around their gun in a lock box!

You're right, real law enforcement officers don't have to carry their weapon in a locked box.

You are correct the program does suck.

Now if you want to be a "real law enforcement officer" change careers. Other wise those that want to be pretend officers have to abide by the absurd rules of the program.

I for 1 wish they would do away with the entire program.

Disclaimer: I spent 7 years as a law enforcement officer before changing careers. So I have seen both sides of the issue. I currently possess a CCW permit, so am not opposed to people carrying firearms. So if you want to be a LEO be one, if you want to be a pilot, be one. But I have yet to understand why anyone thinks they need to carry a firearm in the cockpit of an airliner in the case some one should happen to break through the cockpit door.

 

[CA1900]

But I have yet to understand why anyone thinks they need to carry a firearm in the cockpit of an airliner in the case some one should happen to break through the cockpit door.

Agreed. I mean, what's the worst that could happen if a bad guy got into the cockpit?

 

[Mr Wu]

I for 1 wish they would do away with the entire program.

Why?

But I have yet to understand why anyone thinks they need to carry a firearm in the cockpit of an airliner in the case some one should happen to break through the cockpit door.

THIS should help you out.

 

[NCFlyer]

Agreed. I mean, what's the worst that could happen if a bad guy got into the cockpit?

Has there been a single cockpit door breech since the post 9/11 reinforced doors were installed?

If there has, I'm not aware of it.

If you are going to argue that a crew needs to be armed to provide for the safety of the flight, then all crews need to be armed. What about the thousands of flights each day that are unarmed? Don't they deserve to be safe as well?

 

[Bambam]

I was talking to a secret service guy the other day and he said FFDO procedures are going to create another AD in the future. He said all agencies have an AD on occasion. He even said they had one in the UN while the president was there a few years ago from a secret service guy. They should just put it on in the morning and take it off at night. Period. If it takes more training, then give them the training but stop this stupid procedure of locking and unlocking the item.

 

[get2flyin]

hahaha

USAPA came though and got his job back.

And you pecker heads can't stand it!


hahahahahahah

The crowning achievement of this organization is that they saved the job of a guy who shot a hole in the inside of an airplane while completely disregarding procedure for handling a firearm. What else have they achieved for the remainder of the pilot group? What promises made to you have they delivered on? Nothing. You must be very proud, sport.

Pecker heads? What are you, thirteen?

 

[NCFlyer]

I was talking to a secret service guy the other day and he said FFDO procedures are going to create another AD in the future...... They should just put it on in the morning and take it off at night. Period. If it takes more training, then give them the training but stop this stupid procedure of locking and unlocking the item.

And when it does, let's hope it is only a hole in the side of an airplane and not a dead crew member or ramp agent putting in the chocks.

 

[Mr.B]

hahaha

USAPA came though and got his job back.

And you pecker heads can't stand it!


hahahahahahah[/

This peckerhead says;

1. He should be sh*tcanned for not following SOPs

2. You should get you ass kicked for using "peckerhead". What are ya some kind of redneck?

 

[waveflyer]

This is my conflict with unions and why I think conservative pilots are a walking contradiction. If you can't get fired for shooting a hole in the airplane while disregarding SOP, what can you get fired for?. All you free market couch economists love to lecture about responsibility and then think this is appropriate?

 

[A-V-8]

You guys have it wrong. The gun is not supposed to be out of the holster unless you are (1) on a shooting range after having told the Marshals that you are going there to practice or (2) to shoot a terrorist in the face on the flight deck. There is no safety on the gun. It will not go off in the holster. I will go off while taking it from the glare shield and putting it back in the holster. I have an opinion different from most of yours on this matter but the facts speak for themselves.

If any good came from this incident it showed both the terrorist and the U.S. citizens (Whom overwhelmingly support the program.) that there are guns on flight decks.

 

[scotts]

... But I have yet to understand why anyone thinks they need to carry a firearm in the cockpit of an airliner in the case some one should happen to break through the cockpit door.

Any pilot who thinks their reinforced cockpit door is impenetrable is fooling themselves. I don't want another innocent victim sacrificed because the pilots couldn't defend themselves from a mental midget with a knife.

Most people didn't think suicidal religious extremists would fly a large jet into the twin towers until it happened.

How does that sand taste?

 

[Bringupthebird]

Nothing was given up. It was not a negotiation. The system board ruled that the punishment was too harsh and that he should not have been fired. Therefore, he gets his job back.

Hoo Hoo Hoo, Now THAT'S Funny I don't care who ya' are!

Please tell me you're not on any negotiating team. (Oh, wait USAPA uses Professional Negotiators. How's that goin' for them?)

I can assure you that USAPA wanted a win so bad they were willing to give up just about anything (assuming they had anything to start with. Oh, wait again they had the West Contract to eviscerate in lieu of negotiating a better one for both).

 

[Fly2AK]

So just curious to the ones on this board that feel that the FFDO hasn't done anything to protect the safety of the flight or prevented a breach of the cockpit. The reinforced door is not called a inpenetrable door, if someone wants in bad enough they will get in. NCFlyer, you have a CCW permit, so do I, why do you carry while a civilian? Just in case you need to protect yourself or your loved ones. Has anyone ever attacked you while a civilian to the point you needed to shhot to kill? Last I checked bad guys/terrorist don't schedule appointments when they intend to kill giving you a chance to arm yourself. You carry concealed, shouldn't every other law abiding citizen have the right to as well? Maybe the knowledge that pilots are carrying on the flight deck is a deterent itself. You think terrorist have given up the idea of using aircraft as a weapon? Anyways, just my 2 cents. I support the program and if anything I think the pilot involved should endure additional training before he continues out his duties as an FFDO. Every law enforcement agency has had an AD before, the military carries loaded firearms on their flight decks and I don't recall them ever shooting down their own aircraft with an AD. Bash away for all those who disagree, of and by the way every firearm has a safety, it is the user.

 

[NCFlyer]

So just curious to the ones on this board that feel that the FFDO hasn't done anything to protect the safety of the flight or prevented a breach of the cockpit. The reinforced door is not called a inpenetrable door, if someone wants in bad enough they will get in.

Whether the FFDO program has made airlines more secure, there is no objective way to determine. Some may believe it has, other may disagree. Since there is no way to prove either way we'll just let each have their own opinion.

As for the cockpit door, if it isn't secure, make it so. I know that in less than a day I could make a door that no one could get through with anything found on or sneaked onto an airplane.

Again I'll ask, If you are going to argue that a crew needs to be armed to provide for the safety of the flight, then all crews need to be armed. What about the thousands of flights each day that are unarmed? Don't they deserve to be safe as well?

Not trying to bash anyone or their opinion. Some approve of the program and others don't. I'll not have a falling out with some one who disagrees with me. Again each are entitled to their own opinion.

My original point was that if you want the FFDO's to be LEO, train them & let them carry concealed. Not the joke of a program that they have now. When I was in law enforcement I was expected to have my weapon any time I left my residence.

Also, I personally believe that any law abiding citizen should be permitted to carry a weapon.

 

[Fly-n-hi]

Whether the FFDO program has made airlines more secure, there is no objective way to determine. Some may believe it has, other may disagree. Since there is no way to prove either way we'll just let each have their own opinion.

As for the cockpit door, if it isn't secure, make it so. I know that in less than a day I could make a door that no one could get through with anything found on or sneaked onto an airplane.

Again I'll ask, If you are going to argue that a crew needs to be armed to provide for the safety of the flight, then all crews need to be armed. What about the thousands of flights each day that are unarmed? Don't they deserve to be safe as well?

Not trying to bash anyone or their opinion. Some approve of the program and others don't. I'll not have a falling out with some one who disagrees with me. Again each are entitled to their own opinion.

My original point was that if you want the FFDO's to be LEO, train them & let them carry concealed. Not the joke of a program that they have now. When I was in law enforcement I was expected to have my weapon any time I left my residence.

Also, I personally believe that any law abiding citizen should be permitted to carry a weapon.

Actually, many pilots used to carry guns into the flight deck fairly often back in the 50's and 60's. And I don't recall reading any material that says that pilots were shooting down their own airplanes. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I think it wasn't untill the late 70's or early 80's when the FAA finally stopped it.

Anyway, I would still rather have the FFDO program, complete with all of its flaws, than nothing at all. Besides, its a voluntary program. If you don't like it then don't join it. Pretty simple.

You should spend less time worrying about a program that you're not even involved in and spend more time worrying about something you are involved in.

I don't really get the "Well, since I don't like the program nobody else should be allowed to join it" attitude. You obviously have more faith in the flight deck doors than I do.

 

[CA1900]

And surely TSA would never miss anything.

 

[Fly2AK]

NCflyer....All other flights are safer because of the FFDO program. You don't know if your pilots are armed or not, this in itself is a deterent for rush the flight deck door. Owning and carrying a firearm comes with great responsibility and you being a former LEO should know this, it is not a responsibility that should be forced on anyone, this is why it is a volunteer program. There is no way to make any door or barrier inpenetrable, this is something I learned from the military. Lock and barricade all you want, but it will never be full proof. The stronger the barricade the more time you will buy yourself. The great thing about being american is we can disagree and no one will be hurt or persecuted for for their opinions. Personally, I am a strong supporter of the FFDO's and hope the program will continue at the same time hope for improvements in the current SOP's. Just curious, you criticize the training but have you been through the program?

 

[Mr Wu]

train them & let them carry concealed. Not the joke of a program that they have now.

Like the training to carry concealed in FL? A 3 hour class that consists of how to fill out the application and then off to the range to fire 1 shot, which doesn't even have to hit the target.