US Air firing pilot who's gun discharged

[scarlet]

Would sound great...A pilot defends the country and his company and then fired= Bring on Unemployment from USLESS AIR

 

[DougCorp-9]

Guess its time for all FFDOs to send their weapons back to artesia. You spend your own money to go out, get trained and then carry a huge responsibility for free only to have an accident and the lose your job. What a bunch of chit. Anyone have parker's e-mail? He needs to get some messages.

 

[Cobra17]

And the Terrorists out there are all saying - Thank You, US Air Management. We truly appreciate how you are discouraging your pilots from participating in the FFDO program...

Management? Terrorists? This guys seems to be doing a fine job endangering his fellow pilot and passengers and threatening the FFDO program all by himself. While it was an unfortunate accident, why do you think he should keep his job?

 

[GuppyWN]

My bet is the pilot just found a way to NOT fly to 65 and get paid in full.

Gup

 

[satpak77]

me thinks an FOIA Act should be filed to find out the TRUE story and not the USA-Today-under-your-hotel-room door version / crew lounge version.

but that is just me

 

[jon coqtoestone]

Management? Terrorists? This guys seems to be doing a fine job endangering his fellow pilot and passengers and threatening the FFDO program all by himself. While it was an unfortunate accident, why do you think he should keep his job?

Had this happened postflight, it would have been handled differently. Accidents that occur while adhering to SOP's are accidents. Mishaps that occur while violating SOP's are "a little tougher" to defend.

 

[satpak77]

Had this happened postflight, it would have been handled differently. Accidents that occur while adhering to SOP's are accidents. Mishaps that occur while violating SOP's are "a little tougher" to defend.

never mind the conveniently overlooked fact how an AD could have capped the other pilot and had it been multiple AD's hit something and ricoceted (sp?) and capped both pilots

but besides that, nah, just a tiny mistake. heck, it is TSA's fault. Blame Bush too. Blame Hillary also.

 

[PlaneDrvr]

never mind the conveniently overlooked fact how an AD could have capped the other pilot and had it been multiple AD's hit something and ricoceted (sp?) and capped both pilots

but besides that, nah, just a tiny mistake. heck, it is TSA's fault. Blame Bush too. Blame Hillary also.

The chances of a 'hollow point' round, ricochetting (correct sp. dictionary.com) off of aluminum would be very unlikely. In fact, from the pics, the round, accidently fired, barely pierced the outer skin of the a/c.

Regardless, the pilot should NOT have been fired; and all pilots (FFDOs or not), should be outraged. peroid. Total B.S.

For what its worth.

DA

 

[TWA Dude]

ALPA made the decision to not defend him.

I call BS on this. ALPA is required to grieve every termination. They're not just defending the pilot; they're defending the contract. The process takes many months so I'd bet the preliminaries had begun. USAPA's grievance committee, if there is one, is free to take over. The contract is still in effect.

FWIW I agree that termination is too harsh a punishment. We'll see if he gets his job back.

 

[satpak77]

The chances of a 'hollow point (A)' round, ricochetting (correct sp. dictionary.com) off of aluminum would be very unlikely. In fact, from the pics, the round, accidently fired (B), barely pierced the outer skin (C) of the a/c.

Regardless, the pilot should NOT have been fired; and all pilots (FFDOs or not), should be outraged. peroid. Total B.S.

For what its worth.

DA

A) Wonder what the hollow point would have done had it hit someone ?

B) We all know "accidently fired" that has been emphasized enough

C) It pierced the aluminum skin (barely tho...!), seems like if it hit something inside and broke into pieces, it could have hurt somebody.

why is this "total BS" to fire him? What are the FACTS of the case?

 

[satpak77]

For the real story, or at least the investigation, I recommend everyone start submitting FOIA Act requests, and get back to us.

http://www.tsa.gov/research/foia/foia_requests.shtm

http://www.dot.gov/foia/

with that, I go to bed, resting well that the fact that bullets flying around in the cockpit, however accidental, is not something to be downplayed.

 

[PCL_128]

The facts are known to those that have a need to know. In other words, if you're not an FFDO or someone representing the pilot, then you don't have a need to know. No FOIA request will help you get the info, because information related to the FFDO program is considered SSI.

I agree with the other posters that the pilot did not deserve to be terminated. Unfortunately, uSAPa will not be much help for him.

 

[SaturnPilot]

ALPA, FFDOA, etc have been stating for a while that the carriage procedures are bound to end up in an accidental discharge someday. The procedures are faulty...could have happened to anybody. Combine those procedures with the new holster and there you go. Termination is obviously way overboard here

 

[ExAF]

Be Afraid

Airline management teams have never warmed to the idea of armed pilots. They've always seen it as a liability issue and have assumed they'd be indemnified in the event of another terrorits attack.

And....They are probably afraid what might happen to them if they push one just a little too far over the edge!

 

[PHXFLYR]

I actually expressed no opinion. I asked a question. If you shoot a hole in a company aircraft, you're going to get to talk to HR. That meeting is where the value of ALPA is, but many assume they'll never find themselves in such a situation. From what I hear, there is pretty strict protocal for handling the weapon in flight and maybe things weren't up to SOPs at the time of the 'incident'. I will, however, call BS that ALPA denied to defend him. I'd like to see proof on that as I doubt it was the case.

If you get sick, hurt or diagnosed, have something going on at home that makes you unfit to fly, get a number from ATC, have a runway incursion, etc etc....there were immediate avenues for help. We're on our own now.

We certainly are my friend. We certainly are .....And that's what 2723 blithering idiots back east fail to realize and one of the things the average ALPA member seems to forget. Your ALPA dues gives you access to services you hope you never have to use in your career for what essentially is a flat rate (ie your monthly dues) I shudder to think what all this protection would cost "al la carte" if you had to purchase it on your own, if it can be purchased at all. And I have grave doubts about USAPA's claim that they will be able to deliver any of them in a "seamless" fashion as they claim....


PHXFLYR

 

[spitfire1940]

Why couldn't they just kick him out of the FFDO program and let him keep his job?

By the way, guns don't go off "accidentally" all by themselves. They go off when careless people "accidentally" keep a round in the chamber, "accidentally" take the safety off and "accidentally"' pull the trigger.

Still, taking away the livelihood of a 55-year-old pilot who, for all we know, has never had a problem with his PRIMARY job is just ridiculous.

 

[pilotss]

ALPA, FFDOA, etc have been stating for a while that the carriage procedures are bound to end up in an accidental discharge someday. The procedures are faulty...could have happened to anybody. Combine those procedures with the new holster and there you go. Termination is obviously way overboard here

Exactly!

1. Misfires happen all the time and there are not many who have handled a gun that have not had a misfire. It happens on the ranges and it happens on the streets and in your lifetime, if you handle a gun, you have a good chance of having one. The mounting clasp is close to the seatbelt which is easily caught. Next time you fly with an FFDO ask him about wearing his gun and the seatbelt and how easy it is to get caught on it.

It would be nice to show the statistics of a police officer and misfires to pilots. I think you would see we are not out of line.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Is there a better gun that could have been selected as the FFDO weapon that might have had the safety features that would have prevented this recent incident from occuring ?


PHXFLYR

 

[SaturnPilot]

it's more a problem of the holster and the "donning" procedures than the gun

 

[AKAAB]

Time for all of the FFDO's to organize a day to leave their weapons home in protest...(kidding!)

Could the fact that is was reported to have happened at 8,000ft - under sterile cockpit - be relevant? One would think any handling of the weapon would be best done prior to sterile cockpit or on the ground.

There obviously is a lot more to this story that we think.

:uzi: