US Air 190's

[LearLove]

"the F27 had a brief run with mainline in the early 70's, again retired without ever flying regional"

Some of US Air's F-27s went to Suburban and flew as Allegheny Commuter.

 

[NDM]

Frankie "Fang-Toothe" Lorenzo ala Continental Airlines.

Capt. Regional Age 28.

 

[arthompson]

Frank controlled several companies, only one of which was CAL. The Texas Air Corporation was a monster company.

On the subject of AWAC, AWAC is considered a National Carrier, most of AWAC's 146's were brought on as new deliveries before AWAC was UAX, others joined the company later in markets where they needed higher capacity. The cap was originally 25 airplanes over 50 seats but the company and UAL allowed the number to dwindle.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

"the F27 had a brief run with mainline in the early 70's, again retired without ever flying regional"

Some of US Air's F-27s went to Suburban and flew as Allegheny Commuter.

Forgot about those, but no mainline pilot was displaced or outsourced by the move. At the time the airline was growing rapidly and it was slipped by the union.

Even then there was quite the battle about letting any flying go outside, but back then the commuters were Beech 99's and the like and nobody ever dreamed of anything called an RJ. That was the first mistake as we have seen.

The problem with the current crop is the inability to learn from the past. 30 years ago our predecessors screwed up and the same mistakes are being made now.

Even recent history (1998-2002) is lost to most of the express pilots, I cannot count how many regional guys think that U MEC wanted Parity +1 and traded RJ's for it......Nothing is farther from the truth. U's MEC fought tooth and nail to keep the RJ out of their paint job...unless it was flown by U pilots. Until 2000 there were only around 20 RJ's flying in USAir colors, and at the time the U MEC was the evil "Dad's" trying to keep Jr.(express) down. Now the same crowd that was pissed off about not getting to fly a shiney jet for peanuts has discovered that they are indeed flying for peanuts and that a shiney jet doesn't mean squat without the QOL and payscale to go with it. Only problem is there are darn few mainlines left that are worth a crap, and even fewer that are hiring......mostly due to the fact that the RJ is flying the routes that the 73's and 9's were running just 5 years ago.

Interesting side note, U's 737 pilots are now flying for what the F-28 pilots did before the RJ infestation. Getting the RJ's back on the mainlines is the only solution, I just do not see how it will ever happen.

Starving RJ pilot is now a career, and well paid mainline pilot is a thing of the past. I can see the CEO's laughing all the way to the bank while the pilots hit the food stamp line.

 

[FreedomAList]

AWA current contract does not allow E-190 or Bombardier C series aircraft at other than mainline. The CRJ900's were allowed in a one time deal and no more of them are allowed either. Some of you regional guys just want bigger and bigger planes only problem the wages suck and that is 1 less mainline job available. If you love the sub standard wages and work rules keep lowering the bar pretty soon taxi drivers will make more than us if they don't already.

My understanding is the AWA contract allows Mesa to fly a certain number of 900's based on total fleet size of AWA, which means it was effectively capped at Mesa's current inventory.

However, AWA just merged, and even though the combinded entity is parking 100 a/c, the new company will have ALOT more jets . . . and therefore, Mesa could fly quite a few more 900s. Just rumors now, but either 18 CRJ 900's will move from PHX east, or an ADDITIONAL 19 900's will be purchased to be flown out east.

For as long as it lasts, anway. I give the merged company 2 years before they're bankrupt again, and 5 before they go bye-bye forever. This is of course the regoinals fault because we fly the planes too cheaply.

 

[surfnfly]

WHEN WILL YOU GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL... MANAGMENT MAKES THE CALL ON WHAT EQUIPMENT IS FLOWN...... NOT THE PILOTS!!!

What we need it to find away to stop this stupid name calling and put the blame where it belongs!!!!!!

MAINLINE PILOTS SELLING OUT THEIR FLYING TO THE REGIONALS... can you say that along with me please..... MAINLINE PILOTS SELLING OUT THEIR FLYING TO THE REGIONAL..

That my friends is where the anger should be pointed....

Quit trying to blame mainline guys as an excuse to this downward spiral of our profession. Don't accept anything less than mainline wages to fly an e jet. Most of the regional guys still think it is only a stepping stone to the majors. Gee let me on the 170/190 then I can be more competitive for jetblue. Wake up folks the regionals may be the end of the line for alot of you. Take a stand and demand better wages. DAL did it when they got 777's. The aircraft stayed parked until they got the 300+/hr rate they wanted. If your management wants 170 or larger don't fly them until you get the pay you deserve. Let's try to pull this profession out of the nosedive it's in .

 

[hoover]

Unfortunatly you are the ones that will suffer an entire career of crap wages because of the RJ. Commuters for crap wages was a stepping stone, Regionals for crap wages is now a career....especially if 190 sized airplanes operate as "RJ's"

Crap wages? Since when did $110K a year become crap wages? That is what a top 146 driver at AWAC is earning.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

understanding is the AWA contract allows Mesa to fly a certain number of 900's based on total fleet size of AWA, which means it was effectively capped at Mesa's current inventory.

However, AWA just merged, and even though the combinded entity is parking 100 a/c, the new company will have ALOT more jets . . . and therefore, Mesa could fly quite a few more 900s. Just rumors now, but either 18 CRJ 900's will move from PHX east, or an ADDITIONAL 19 900's will be purchased to be flown out east.

For as long as it lasts, anway. I give the merged company 2 years before they're bankrupt again, and 5 before they go bye-bye forever. This is of course the regoinals fault because we fly the planes too cheaply.

This is true, but as a consequence of the merger, we all will re-enter section 6 negotiations (straight from the MEC). Parker and Mac both want to ensure a positive attitude and the Union is keen on keeping the 170's and 190's in Mainline while not giving anymore 900 flying up. So, get ready. Hopefully this will mean more mainline jobs and not more outsourcing.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Also, as for being gone completely in 5 years, if we go so do you. So, maybe we should all hope for the best.

 

[Beaver_Liquors]

<<<<<<<

Crap wages? Since when did $110K a year become crap wages? That is what a top 146 driver at AWAC is earning.

>>>>>

And your prowd of that, it takes you twenty years to get there, thats another thing that the regionals have really gotten bad at, it takes 20 years to top out of the pay scales, a 12 year 146 guy gets $88/hr. Thats pathetic for a 100 seat airplane as a captain. Yeah, I know we get duty rigs,trip rigs, blah blah blah. Our problem has been said before, we are in the mentality that its a regional and that we cant get paid what we should. I know its hard these days with the preditory contracts out there, everyone willing to stab each other in the backs. Thats ALPA national's fault for not being a real union and just being a bunch of lawyers that tell you what not to do instead of pulling us all together.

bl

 

[nimtz]

Frankie "Fang-Toothe" Lorenzo ala Continental Airlines.

Capt. Regional Age 28.

Ah yes, here we see the type who read Hard Landings and now considers himself well versed. Hey genius, 'Fang' was Crandall's nickname. Lorenzo's only nickname which I can print here without getting banned was 'Frankie Smooth Talk.'

Captain.Regional. Age 26.Listened to those who went through the drama rather then depending on a book from Borders

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Crap wages? Since when did $110K a year become crap wages? That is what a top 146 driver at AWAC is earning.

Your twelve year pay is what? $88? for a 100 seater.

SWA is getting in the neighborhood of 175 or so at 12 years for a 124 seater.

As I understand it that 110K is after 20 years, How old are you now? I have to retire in 24 years myself. 88 K a year after 12 years??? A good plumber gets that a year. And I doubt anybody is in any real serious danger if he screws up.

When new cars are going for 25k for a Chevy and 50k for a luxury car and gas is 2.50 a gallon, 110k is crap pay for a life time of experience in a career as unforgiving of mistakes as aviation.

 

[Jabwmu]

88 K a year after 12 years??? A good plumber gets that a year. And I doubt anybody is in any real serious danger if he screws up.

I beg to differ.

 

[NDM]

By the way, I heard the term Frankie "Fang-Toothe" from an old Continental driver who walked the line. I also got to spend a few hours talking to the guy who was head of Lorenzo's security. He, by the way, is the owner of the company who does most of the background checks on all airline employees which is contracted out by the airlines. Guess who financed him?

And I am 28 (not 26), Capt., been here 5 years bringing in 6 figures this year. By the way I generally have 15-16 days off a month and fly 75-80 hours a month. You are right, our hourly rate for a 190 is not what the DC-9 was. I wish we could have done better and we have more leverage for this next time around, but top end pay for us on the 190 will be $120/hr.

Is that good enough pay- He!! no. Will I fight for more. He!! yes.

Of course most of my original post was dismissed. I really don't care whose fault it is. The sh.t is ours now to deal with.

I hope everyone flies safe, and I will let you older mainline guys buy the first round and educate me anytime.

Dan

 

[JohnyChimpo99]

AWAC will get the E190's, so you can all relax.

 

[JohnyChimpo99]

Johnny Chimpo has a inside source!
​

 

[FlamingFUPA]

Johnny Chimpo has a inside source!
​

hahahaha was it Jerry the giraffe?

 

[arthompson]

AWAC will get the E190's, so you can all relax.

I have no doubt. I have faith in GC and the boys that the right airplane will replace the 146. Maybe I should call my contact in ATW and ask what he knows.

 

[JohnyChimpo99]

How do you know Jerry?

 

[BoilerUP]

...give my regards to Bobby Babboon!

 

[lionflyer]

AWAC will get the E190's, so you can all relax.

Can I have some of what you're smokn. There's no way in helll that AWAC is going to outbid CHQ. If you listen to GC message real close, it won't give you a lot of confidence. If AWAC gets them, they have to comply with J4J and get rid of some 50 seaters. I don't see it happening and to tell you the truth, I hope AWA stops this thing cold.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

I beg to differ.

Google a search on plumbers wages..........you will not think that your RJ wage is all that great when you are done.

Fully qualified Plumber wages: $25 to $40 an hour. Most are self employed.

Thats $52,000 to $83,000 give or take a little for a normal 40 hour week.

You must not own a house and needed a good plumber lately have you?

 

[Jabwmu]

Google a search on plumbers wages..........you will not think that your RJ wage is all that great when you are done.

Fully qualified Plumber wages: $25 to $40 an hour. Most are self employed.

Thats $52,000 to $83,000 give or take a little for a normal 40 hour week.

You must not own a house and needed a good plumber lately have you?

relax, i was making a joke. plumbers not getting hurt at work. way too uptight.

 

[Jabwmu]

Google a search on plumbers wages..........you will not think that your RJ wage is all that great when you are done.

who said it was. get off your high horse. loser.

 

[JohnyChimpo99]

I told you that I have a inside source that says AWAC will be getting them. Also, our company already told US Air that we will not be returning any 50 seaters because nobody wants them, so this would be pure growth. AWAC put in a bid for only 90 seaters. If Airways wants to get rid of 50 seat planes they can just s@it can Trans States contract. Nothing aginst Trans States. Anything can get axed in chapter 11. As for CHQ, they are tough and I know they will fly them for NOTHING, ie the E170!! I believe CHQ stills needs to work on a bunch of stuff with their management before they can even get a bid in. AWAC has a seat on the board this fall and will be the second largest owner in the new Airways. The only way we will not get these planes is if the three Amigos don't want them. I only want to fly these planes if we get Bae 146 pay or higher. The new plane enjoyment wears off in about six months. You are right about the pay issue. The last thing I want is a crappy pay scale on these planes like the CHQ E170 payscale. This will be left up to the pilot group and I feel AWAC will set a great pay scale. As much as these planes should be at mainline, they are coming to the regional level no matter what you do. If you work at AWAC and are saying these planes should be at the mainline level you are a hypocrite. If AWAC came to us last year and offered us 27 Bae 146's, it would have passed hands down 100% and they seat more than 90 seats. Nobody would have said a word and our newhire classes would be filled for months. AWAC will be getting them, so you can all relax now.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

loser.

Could be, after all I am a pilot!


Mostly just bored due to the rainy crap day outside.

Looked up some more wages that only required a high school education......

These are median wages, they go up and down with experience:

Welder: 41,640
Meter Reader: 38,000
Excavator operator: 40,000
Bus Driver: 36,700
Crane Operator: 57,780
Chauffeur: 50,000
Train Engineer: 63,000


Some how I have ended up in a profession that requires (mostly) a 4 year degree and extensive training, along with heavy regulation and medical standards, abnormal work hours and extended days away from home, responsible for 10 to 100 million dollars worth of company equipment........yet it took 10 years(not counting school) for me to make more than a crane operator with a high school education!!!!!!

Loser..........yep that might fit after all!!

 

[arthompson]

I don't know about the rest of you guys but I knew what the business paid when I got into it. Do I think we all deserve to be paid more? yes I do. However I knew the harsh reality when I filled out the application.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

I don't know about the rest of you guys but I knew what the business paid when I got into it. Do I think we all deserve to be paid more? yes I do. However I knew the harsh reality when I filled out the application.

My post above is not quite accurate......This business paid much better when I started than it does now.

I was in the six figure range before 9/11 and the massive RJ expansion.......it just didn't last long!!!

Oh well, there is always plumbing!!!

 

[PGTB]

Chataqua is not going to be operating these airplanes. AWAC will be. As stated above they have a seat on the board, and are looking to operate something along the lines of the aging 146. Chataqua wont be growing much in the near future when Delta cancels their contract in Bankruptcy. Freedom is replacing them starting real soon, and delta has no room for an excess of RJs. Id just be careful over there.

 

[Beechnut]

With all due respect, you guys are smoking crack. I say we will never see an AWAC E-190. Our list of why nots is far to big.


S.