UNITED changing name to United Express

[ReverseSensing]

Most of the UAL new hires where RJ Captains for 7 to 10 years!!!!

Possibly true, but irrelevant nonetheless.

Your management (with permission from your pilot group, presumably) decided to farm Express flying out to OTHER airlines under a CONTRACTUAL arrangement. Unless your pilot group has a CONTRACTUAL arrangement with that OTHER airline, you have no more right to those seats than they do to yours. And no, it makes no difference who leased the airplanes or buys the gas or books the tickets.

Express carriers are CONTRACTORS to your management. Is it a good arrangement? I don't think so, but that's the situation. You want to dictate terms to another corporation, it'll probably cost you a lot more than you're willing to spend at the negotiating table.

 

[amlplt]

Only the seats of the non-union tools!!!

 

[Peealot]

It was the union that put you in this position. Plenty of union, as well as non-union, carriers took furloughees on and welcomed them with open arms in their rightful place and position. I think your argument against non-union pilot groups is faulted. I believe Skywest took more of your pilots(furloughees) on than any other unionized pilot group. I dont see how your argument against non-union groups carries any weight.

 

[tyuwerty]

If memory serves me correctly, after 9/11, USAir pilots were the only ones that had a J4J deal. it consisted of 50% of the seats (CA and FO) on newly awarded flying. This was NEW flying that was over and above the contracts already in place. Basically, they bought the seats by farming out more flying to the contractors. Only contractors that agreed to the J4J LOA's were awarded the extra flying.

Catch 22, more regional flying meant less mainline flights.

Delta had some sort of pref hiring set up with some regionals but I don't remember any of them going directly to the left seat.

I never saw any UAL furloughies.

 

[Bako Cap]

I would bet that SkyWest pilots would go for 50%CA and 50%FO per NEW 70 seats or greater with bottom of the list seniority and first year pay. I don't agree with this but I am sure that there are enough FOs that would see this as their opportunity to grab a quick upgrade, depending on the number aircraft, with guaranteed reserves. I donno, the last itme we did J4Js, it worked out very well for most SkyWest pilots. Maybe just a revamp of the old program.

Peealot, I believe that you are right. SkyWest had more than 200 furloughees from United. Almost all went back to United when they received their recall. I wonder that if they come back to SkyWest for another (hopefully short) temp job, they will end up turning down their next recall at United?

 

[Skaff]

You can demand Captain slots when we are hiring when I can demand Captain slots at your airline when you are hiring. If that's the case, sign me up.

 

[goahead]

Will never happen nope not in this life time......
Next topic?

 

[Skank]

can we say anything but MESA sucks on every board here comeon we all know they do !! lets me more construtive with our posts and replies!! how about skyworst sucks for once

I've never worked at Skywest, but I've heard that it used to be a good place to work. I've never heard that about Mesa.

 

[Peealot]

Most people at Skyw have heard the rumor of the UAL_SKYW_UAL guy that was told during IOE why in the he!! did he ever come back to UAL having come from SkyW. Not that I am gloating, but it is pretty good for a REGIONAL job......

Is that you PK?

 

[relief tube]

In a respectable world if a regional received more flying due to mainline contraction, furloughed should get 100% of the jobs with full seniority-(top of the list)

They come with the flying, they should get first dibs on that flying. Otherwise the regional pilots are the ones that benefit at their expense.

This coming from a junior Regional captain that doesn't feel it's right to gain any QOL increase at the expense of....essentially my forefathers. I don't want to fly left seat to some guy thats been at mainline for 5 years. Nor do I think its right to have a better sked than him....especially if he brought added flying over with him. No BS there.

 

[Peealot]

I see what you are saying relief, but your company may or may not be obligated to UAL or any other specific major. When you sign up for a company you are senior from day one unless you are the last guy for the class. Why should someone who MIGHT, regarless of seniority, fly for the major carrier be entitled to more seniority than you as a captain or FO and potentially displace your position as captain just because they ALLOW you to fly for them as a regional? Happened to Eagle and ExpressJet after 9/11. They hated life because organic FO's were not able to upgrade for YEARS because mainline guys flowed down into captain positions. This becomes a wrong imparted on our FO's who are rightfully entitled to the positions. Where is the proper seniority in that? Your forefathers are the guys who came to, made a difference, and LEFT your specific airline in a seniority based order, not guys who were given positions out of that order for the benefit of the major airline. United pilots, or other airline pilots, do not have benefits at your airline, which may not be wholly entitled to UAL. They are united pilots who want to get a interim job until UAL provides for a better life. If the mainline guys want jobs, fine, not a problem. But they should start as anyone who gets a job at any airline, junior as an FO. After 9/11, UAL guys were brought on our property and before they left some were captains. They earned it, it was not given to them. They respected the positions they were in, and for the most part were REALLY GOOD pilots for our airline.

 

[Russ]

Didn't ALPA use similar rhetoric with regard to the last J4J scheme about demanding the left seat and came away with second year FO pay instead?
There's an ebb and flow and now isn't the time for ALPA to be think it's in the drivers seat.

 

[jayme]

If UAL wants more RJ's then they better be ready to staff them with UAL pilots. The 50 seaters are history and you better believe that the 2172 furloughed the last go around will be DEMANDING LEFT SEAT Captain slots on any new RJ's for Express.


I know UAL-ALPA is already working on this.

This isn't directed directly at you Sonny Crocket, but how about the UAL guys grow a set and strike unless your demands to get the RJs on property are met?

 

[Jon Rivoli]

If you want top senoirity on any new airframes, simple, have your airline buy them and fly them on your certificate. If you want my airline to buy them, pound sand.

 

[Skaff]

In a respectable world if a regional received more flying due to mainline contraction, furloughed should get 100% of the jobs with full seniority-(top of the list)

They come with the flying, they should get first dibs on that flying. Otherwise the regional pilots are the ones that benefit at their expense.

This coming from a junior Regional captain that doesn't feel it's right to gain any QOL increase at the expense of....essentially my forefathers. I don't want to fly left seat to some guy thats been at mainline for 5 years. Nor do I think its right to have a better sked than him....especially if he brought added flying over with him. No BS there.

I don't want to see Mainline furloughs and I don't want to see regional growth. But Mainline managers screwed up and Regional pilots shouldn't be screwed over by loss of seniority due to J4J. I purposely have not moved on yet because I didn't want to get furloughed. I'll make the jump later, but any of the guys that are in the furlough groups of the mainline pilots took a risk. They risked their seniority at their old jobs to jump to something bigger, at the bottom of a seniority list. The risk of being at the bottom of a seniority list is furlough. I wouldn't wish a furlough on my worst enemy, but it is what it is. If they want to fly their pilots in rj's, they should buy rj's and put them on the mainline certificate.