United and Continental Talking....

[D-Bo]

dangit - am I gonna get furloughed again?

Is this R.W. in DEN? If so, what's up? I wouldn't worry too much about being furloughed. A few reasons why I wouldn't if UAL and CAL merge are:

1) UAL is still short on pilots. The recall classes that are planned through FEB07 weren't created for future retirements. They were created because UAL is short now. The recall classes would have been more frequent or in larger numbers this year if TK could have handle it mapower and resource wise. At worst, I see recalls slowing down or stopped for a while but I wouldn't anticipate any furloughs.

2) If it is CAL, they are short also and hiring like crazy. They also have a bunch of new aircraft coming next year. I don't think all of the hiring they are doing right now is in anticipation of the upcomming retirements. Some of them maybe. But not most. I think most of the hiring they're doing is being done because they need those new bodies NOW.

3) A lot of folks are anxious about being urloughed again but I can't think of a merger that resulted in furloughs after the fact. I'm sure there may be one or two cases but I can't think of any right now. Heck, even after AMR bought TWA, that didn't result in any furloughs. That didn't happen until after 9/11. After AMR bought TWA, they were STILL hiring about 30 pilots a week and there was some overlap. Even though there was a lot less overlap, no furloghs have happened since Airways and America West became one. Yes, AmWest stopped hiring, but they didn't furlough. And Airways furloughees are still coming back.

So I'm not saying it could happen, anything can happen. But, I wouldn't be overly concerned about it right now. Thye haven't even announced anything yet. We're so far away from when an integration would come. By that time, UAL could possibly be all the way back up the list again. There are more than a couple other factors that would get us re-furloughed before a merger will.


D-Bo aka A.F. from your new-hire class in 3/2000 if this is R.W. I'm talking to.

 

[UALfurloughee]

Yeah - it's me. That all makes sense. Thanks for all the info on retirements too!

Andy, how far down are you? I need to get some info on how to garner all th data you get!

Thanks,
Randy

 

[737 Pylt]

re: UAL/CAL

The size of this carrier would be tremendous. Imagine over 100 777's and 50 747's! Wow! This announced merger makes a lot of sense seeing what UAL has done in recent months ala basically giving up on the NYC market, by discintuining JFK-LHR, JFK-NRT.
I personally wouldn't mind seeing this go through and DL merging with NWA. NWA makes a much better fit for DL, with their pacific routes and our european routes. Hardly any domestic overlap. US Air brings nothing to the table for DL.
As for UAL/CAL, you have to wonder which management team would run this mega airline and where the new HQ would be??
Lots of interesting times ahead!

737

 

[KozzyCFI]

What if it were a merger of equals between UAL/CAL with United offering NWA the A319/320s (which they could use to help replace the aging DC9 fleet) in exchange for not utilizing the "golden share" to block the proposed marriage?? Then the only fleet differences become the 747. And different engines aren't a big deal. Look at AA/TWA 757s running around with RR and P&W engines. And if we CAL guys are already smart enough to bounce between RR 757 and GE 767, well, I'm just guessing, but I bet we could do just fine with Pratts, too.

 

[densoo]

I wouldn't object to a merge of lists favoring CAL pilots. I consider DOH a nonstarter because it would REALLY screw over the CAL pilots.

This will be interesting. CAL has captains right now with DOH junior to UAL pilots still on furlough. So a furloughed UAL pilot gets to come back from furlough to captain? If you're UAL ALPA, yes. If you're CAL ALPA, well, can they fight the inevitable renewal of the "torque" campaign of the early 90s?

 

[fellows]

Anybody heard anything about Cal wanting to sell Air Mic.

 

[D-Bo]

What if it were a merger of equals between UAL/CAL with United offering NWA the A319/320s (which they could use to help replace the aging DC9 fleet) in exchange for not utilizing the "golden share" to block the proposed marriage?? Then the only fleet differences become the 747. And different engines aren't a big deal. Look at AA/TWA 757s running around with RR and P&W engines. And if we CAL guys are already smart enough to bounce between RR 757 and GE 767, well, I'm just guessing, but I bet we could do just fine with Pratts, too.

Just give NWA 155 Airbuses huh?

 

[D-Bo]

Yeah - it's me. That all makes sense. Thanks for all the info on retirements too!

Andy, how far down are you? I need to get some info on how to garner all th data you get!

Thanks,
Randy

I gotta send you an E-Note dude. Haven't talked to you since 15 JAN 03. Hope everytjing is good. Don't worry too much about all this. But do get on the phone with the reps and try to get to those council meetings.

TF

 

[jetexas]

Looks to me that CAL/UAL are both just setting up for dancing partners in case a merging frenzy really does begin. The CO CEO has said he doesn't want to merge but would rather see the company prosper, with 5-7% growth/year, from within. However, if push comes to shove CO will not be left behind if other large mergers do happen.
It sure could pour cold water on the career expectations of those at CO, at least the new guys.

 

[Andy]

This will be interesting. CAL has captains right now with DOH junior to UAL pilots still on furlough. So a furloughed UAL pilot gets to come back from furlough to captain? If you're UAL ALPA, yes. If you're CAL ALPA, well, can they fight the inevitable renewal of the "torque" campaign of the early 90s?

I find that hard to believe unless you are counting the bypasses. UAL is recalling down to the bottom of the pile; '01 hires are now being offered recall.

UAL got upset when USAir proposed DOH; I would expect CAL to get upset if UAL proposes DOH. And I wouldn't blame them.
Both companies are 'relatively' healthy as standalone airlines; I don't give an edge to one over the other in that respect.
Career expectations, however, are brighter at CAL due to the high percentage of retirements over the next few years.