United Airlines

[Flopgut]

I flew with a f/o on his last trip on the bus before he went to training for Guppy f/o. His training took so long he was able to take a bump to Captain on the Guppy. That is one screwed up training center in Houston.

Ran ok under CAL. 3 ladies ran the whole AQP. They got canned in favor of keeping the sUAL version in place. A 50+ person department with its own director/vp. Feel free to verify that, it's basically the truth.

*edit* might be 30 sUAL in that department

 

[eaglesview]

Ran ok under CAL. 3 ladies ran the whole AQP. They got canned in favor of keeping the sUAL version in place. A 50+ person department with its own director/vp. Feel free to verify that, it's basically the truth.

*edit* might be 30 sUAL in that department

The problem they are having is scheduling was sent to WHQ. Even the management down there acknowledges they are having problems. Scheduling is a mess. The instruction was OK. Ground instructors get a C- in my book. Pilot instructors get a B+. Problems occurred because you get a different instructor for every sim so technique is very inconsistent. I even had an instructor reach up and turn off the taxi light when I switched it on with the clearance to land. That's silly...teach me how to fly the approach not when to turn on a light, which since it is a sim does not really exist anyway.

As I said, on the first day, right after the management folks handed out our welcome to the Guppy stickers, they warned us it was a bit messy. It was.

 

[densoo]

Ran ok under CAL. 3 ladies ran the whole AQP. They got canned in favor of keeping the sUAL version in place. A 50+ person department with its own director/vp. Feel free to verify that, it's basically the truth.

*edit* might be 30 sUAL in that department

LUAL used MINT (http://www.media-interactive.de/?page=land_crew), likely the best crew scheduling system out there. You drop a load of training requirements into it and it pops out with individual training footprints, entire schedules, student pairings, classrooms, instructors, devices, sims, completely customized to comply with complex and changing Contact and FAA requirements. If someone misses a day or a sim breaks it will rerun a solution to solve the consequent domino effect to keep everything on track. It upwardly scaleable, very flexible, and can take numerous inputs at once and sort them out.

LCAL used an in-house, home-grown "TSW" (Training Scheduling Worksheet) which is essentially an excel spreadsheet that was created in the 90s. Two things to note: changes are largely manual, and like any typical file, can only be edited by one person at a time. For 12,000 pilots.

MINT cost about $200k per month, a small price to pay to keep millions of dollars worth of pilots and equipment on an efficient track.

TSW cost nothing. Guess which one they picked?

The cutover to all TSW was Dec 2013 and we've seen the result. This resultant mess was followed shortly thereafter this spring of a $150k study by a consulting firm as to why training scheduling isn't working. Like any beauracracy they know the answer but do a study to pretend there might be a different solution. They may end up going back to MINT. Who knows how they'll solve it. But in true LCAL fashion they removed the best tools from the employees that enabled them to do their assigned jobs, then they blame them for inferior outcomes.

Flopgut, TSW worked OK with 4500 pilots with LCAL's aircraft and bases. Put another way, LCAL had two seats positions in 3 aircraft at 4 bases to train, equalling 24 moving parts. The new UAL has 2 seat positions in 8 aircraft at 10 bases, equalling 160 moving parts. Three "ladies" at a desk with a sharp pencil won't work anymore.

 

[eaglesview]

^^^^^^^^Well that about sums it up. ^^^^^^

 

[Uncle Bort]

They recalled the sUAL furloughees way too quickly. Should have taken at least twice as long to do it. Especially since so may sUAL aircraft are being retired.

 

[Ex737Driver]

Obviously "never been wt restricted." was too much to comprehend.....

Not the point. And as along as we are still going there......the 73 will make BOS-SFO, in January, with a full aircraft, a jumpseater, an alternate with reserves with no "tech stop" or weight restriction. The point was the minnow cannot do the same thing, unless, as you point out, paxs and bags are removed. The minnow just does not have the legs a 73 does.

 

[eaglesview]

Not the point. And as along as we are still going there......the 73 will make BOS-SFO, in January, with a full aircraft, a jumpseater, an alternate with reserves with no "tech stop" or weight restriction. The point was the minnow cannot do the same thing, unless, as you point out, paxs and bags are removed. The minnow just does not have the legs a 73 does.

I give.....what the hell is the minnow?

 

[chppr5]

I give.....what the hell is the minnow?

That must be his cute name for Fifi. Lost cause, don't you understand....LUAL brought nothing to the merger......

 

[densoo]

I give.....what the hell is the minnow?

Like a guppy, except it's ok to say "guppy" but not ok to say "minnow." Something to do with "my nickname for yours is clever but your nickname for mine is an insult." Adults refer to them as a 737 and a 320.

A320: MiniBus, NintendoJet, ScareBus, Chainsaw, Deathjet, Freddie Kruegers wet dream, Toulouse Grasscutter, The Strimmer, Fifi, Die-by-Wire, the French Bitch, Sully's Ark (What's the difference between an A320 and a beaver? 4000 trees per hour.)

Boeing 737: Tin mouse, Maggot, Pocket Rocket Socket, FLUF (Fat Little Ugly Fellow), Light Twin, Baby Boeing, Fat Freddy, Guppy, Thunder Guppy (series 1/200), Yuppy Guppy, Super Guppy (series 3/4/500), Pig, Bobby (BOeing BaBY), Rudder Rotor, Fat Albert, Dung Beatle. Boeing 737NG: Super FLUF.

http://www.b737.org.uk/aircraftnicknames.htm

 

[waveflyer]

I always like FLUF for my plane

Good post, but notice it's a fair question

"Minnow's" not on the list

I've never heard that one

 

[Flopgut]

LUAL used MINT (http://www.media-interactive.de/?page=land_crew)
Flopgut, TSW worked OK with 4500 pilots with LCAL's aircraft and bases. Put another way, LCAL had two seats positions in 3 aircraft at 4 bases to train, equalling 24 moving parts. The new UAL has 2 seat positions in 8 aircraft at 10 bases, equalling 160 moving parts. Three "ladies" at a desk with a sharp pencil won't work anymore.

Thanks for the thorough answer and info. What I wonder is did mint ever work real well apart from the sUAL standard of being largely overstaffed? We see the difference with pilots, flight attendants (especially) and with pretty much every part of sUAL. We can't jump in the way back machine and return to the days when passengers didn't care how expensive their tickets were, if their bags ever arrived and how late the plane was because they had so much $ and time they did not care. The kind of problem less overproducing economy it takes to support and make a UAL of old thrive is gone. People have to step up and make things work and be productive. I know the folksy old fashion cal way of doing things grates on everyone but it was working--even in this new economy/reality. If you and I (and all of us) are being asked to extract even more fuel out of already very efficient airplanes, then it's not completely out of the question that some sUAL training schedulers pull theirs heads out of their arses and get a solution!! The sUAL tradition of 10 times more employees than the competition pouring over hardware/software that costs 10 times more than what the competition might be using has to end.

 

[eaglesview]

Like a guppy, except it's ok to say "guppy" but not ok to say "minnow." Something to do with "my nickname for yours is clever but your nickname for mine is an insult." Adults refer to them as a 737 and a 320.

A320: MiniBus, NintendoJet, ScareBus, Chainsaw, Deathjet, Freddie Kruegers wet dream, Toulouse Grasscutter, The Strimmer, Fifi, Die-by-Wire, the French Bitch, Sully's Ark (What's the difference between an A320 and a beaver? 4000 trees per hour.)

Boeing 737: Tin mouse, Maggot, Pocket Rocket Socket, FLUF (Fat Little Ugly Fellow), Light Twin, Baby Boeing, Fat Freddy, Guppy, Thunder Guppy (series 1/200), Yuppy Guppy, Super Guppy (series 3/4/500), Pig, Bobby (BOeing BaBY), Rudder Rotor, Fat Albert, Dung Beatle. Boeing 737NG: Super FLUF.

http://www.b737.org.uk/aircraftnicknames.htm

Well your the first person I have heard use that... Kind of silly. What CAL pilots don't understand is at sUAL we have nicknamed every airplane we have had. Not an insult just culture thing
737-200 = thunder guppy
737-300 = yuppy guppy
A320/319 = Fifi
727 = three holer
DC10 = diesel 10
777 = big foot
747 = whale. ( it has a hump back )
Now we have the 787 which actually earned its name....sparky

So when we say guppy it's just what we have done since before I got hired over 20 years ago. I am now on the 737 and still call it the guppy. When I went to training the Houston training department handed out " welcome to the Guppy" stickers to us. That has been in industry nickname for a long time. Now I will admit that when we heard the CAL pilots thought it was an insult then we never missed a chance to say guppy. Boys will be boys.

 

[eaglesview]

Thanks for the thorough answer and info. What I wonder is did mint ever work real well apart from the sUAL standard of being largely overstaffed? We see the difference with pilots, flight attendants (especially) and with pretty much every part of sUAL. We can't jump in the way back machine and return to the days when passengers didn't care how expensive their tickets were, if their bags ever arrived and how late the plane was because they had so much $ and time they did not care. The kind of problem less overproducing economy it takes to support and make a UAL of old thrive is gone. People have to step up and make things work and be productive. I know the folksy old fashion cal way of doing things grates on everyone but it was working--even in this new economy/reality. If you and I (and all of us) are being asked to extract even more fuel out of already very efficient airplanes, then it's not completely out of the question that some sUAL training schedulers pull theirs heads out of their arses and get a solution!! The sUAL tradition of 10 times more employees than the competition pouring over hardware/software that costs 10 times more than what the competition might be using has to end.

UCH has created a reputation for doing everything on the cheap regardless of quality. So taking a scheduling program and trying to make it work no matter how poor a product is know surprise.Look no further than the wifi debacle on these airplanes. Lowest bidder is not always the best solution. Saber would be another example. Airlines rely on the high paying business traveler. That passenger expects things to work. The 320's have been stripped of their entertainment system and had a wifi system put in that cannot stream if it works at all. They now fly transcons with no entertainment. That's pathetic.

So wether we are talking about training schedules or airline service cheapest is not always the best. As for training schedules specifically...I wonder how much money all the delays in Houston cost...maybe the system would already have paid for itself.

 

[chppr5]

Thanks for the thorough answer and info. What I wonder is did mint ever work real well apart from the sUAL standard of being largely overstaffed? We see the difference with pilots, flight attendants (especially) and with pretty much every part of sUAL. We can't jump in the way back machine and return to the days when passengers didn't care how expensive their tickets were, if their bags ever arrived and how late the plane was because they had so much $ and time they did not care. The kind of problem less overproducing economy it takes to support and make a UAL of old thrive is gone. People have to step up and make things work and be productive. I know the folksy old fashion cal way of doing things grates on everyone but it was working--even in this new economy/reality. If you and I (and all of us) are being asked to extract even more fuel out of already very efficient airplanes, then it's not completely out of the question that some sUAL training schedulers pull theirs heads out of their arses and get a solution!! The sUAL tradition of 10 times more employees than the competition pouring over hardware/software that costs 10 times more than what the competition might be using has to end.

Seriously, do you ever post without a jab to LUAL? In my 17 years we were never over staffed till they parked the guppy's in '08. Yea, we paid for Mint and Sabre but it paid for itself. If you've ever owned a business you'd realize you have to spend money to make money. These guys are tripping over quarters to pick up pennies. They are squeezing the employees by taking away the tools they need to do the job. We have a revenue problem and these clowns are focusing on costs. Compare DAL,UCH,AMR,SWA revenue year over year. We lag our competitors because we ditched Sabre which had decades of revenue management experience. What worked at LCAL is not working for a carrier this big. Not saying LUAL was better or worse but we were this size before (100K employees). We had tools in place that could handle training, revenue management, payroll, crew scheduling transparency, customer service simplicity (check-in,rebookings,JS). There are two examples of merging airlines in recent history, UCH and DAL. AMR is following the one that used the bigger carrier's infrastructure due to their capabilities. The idea of merger of equals is killing us. Management is trying to reinvent the wheel, they pick the cheapest option rather than the better option (hence the $7 bottles of wine in Int'l First Class)

 

[densoo]

The 320's have been stripped of their entertainment system and had a wifi system put in that cannot stream if it works at all. They now fly transcons with no entertainment. That's pathetic.

I used the wifi on the 737 last week and it seems like they've set the router up to deny streaming outright. I tried several different streaming sources, Netflix, Youtube, etc, and none of them even got started.

 

[densoo]

We can't jump in the way back machine and return to the days when passengers didn't care how expensive their tickets were, if their bags ever arrived and how late the plane was because they had so much $ and time they did not care. The kind of problem less overproducing economy it takes to support and make a UAL of old thrive is gone. People have to step up and make things work and be productive. I know the folksy old fashion cal way of doing things grates on everyone but it was working--even in this new economy/reality.

Ticket expense has nothing to do with us. Management is clueless and overpaid.

They're outsourcing everything which is why bags are getting lost and there's a lot of poor customer service.

No one could be more productive than LCAL pilots and look where that got us. Labor productivity has one purpose and one purpose only, to transfer $ from us to them. It will never lower a ticket price. Bethune got $50m when he left, and it wasn't from the customers.

 

[densoo]

Well your the first person I have heard use that... Kind of silly. What CAL pilots don't understand is at sUAL we have nicknamed every airplane we have had. Not an insult just culture thing.

That's a fair criticism.

 

[densoo]

What I wonder is did mint ever work real well apart from the sUAL standard of being largely overstaffed?

Any system will be less stressed if not working at capacity but from what I saw MINT is a Cadillac system capable of handling what we're going through right now and I think there are many who regret the decision to not use it. There is no argument anywhere that TSW was "the best of both world's"--by a long shot. It was the cheapest. These kinds of short-term savings pump the stock price, achieve near-term management performance metrics thereby earning them incentives, but are not sustainable and either have to be fixed eventually with more expensive solutions or just fail after those decision makers are gone with our money.

 

[eaglesview]

Well I think the general consensus is clear. Management has to be changed. An infrastructure has to be put in place that can handle an airline this size. The company will have to spend money to put a product in place that attracts and can recapture the high dollar pax we had. The new management will have to create a much less adversarial relationship for the work force.

We also need to get over ourselves. So this worked better at UAL and that worked better at CAL....who gives a crap. If the company doesn't get its financial performance under control we will have much bigger problems than scheduling issues.

 

[vetrider]

The ugly girl may have been ugly, but her CEO was better.