Union busting, bigblue style.

[Dizel8]

Well, I'm just calling it as I see it. I am not trying to piss anyone off.

For me, this new policy really changes the way I view this company. They really F'd it this time.

I do suspect however that this is just another corporate preparation for the union.

We told you, but you didn't believe it, perhaps now you see?

What union?

 

[Dizel8]

Oh totally agree. To me this is worse than anything so far. To drop in a policy within 24hrs of it going live is astonishing. This was the clincher. And of course this just another item we will have to negotiate back.

You must be new around here, this is just par for the course.

 

[N311HK]

You must be new around here, this is just par for the course.

7 years. I'm usually unemotional about the stuff they do. To me this is a big deal. I've understood that company will always try to screw us to save and make money, I get that. This is different.

 

[Dizel8]

7 years. I'm usually unemotional about the stuff they do. To me this is a big deal. I've understood that company will always try to screw us to save and make money, I get that. This is different.

My apologies, but think back over the 7 years you have been here, what have you gained, what have you lost? I think if you take a objective view, the minus column is bigger than the plus. Some things may not have hurt you as an individual, but it probably hurt the group as a whole.

Health care affected many last year, PP trigger and 13:30's, FSM rewrite, CSPP discount, int'l over ride, night over ride, etc., etc.!

 

[CapnVegetto]

Well, after this, they can simply kiss this pilot group goodbye.

If this doesn't procure a union vote, then I don't know what will.

 

[Blue Dude]

Well, after this, they can simply kiss this pilot group goodbye.

If this doesn't procure a union vote, then I don't know what will.

Sadly, that's what many said this time last year with the health plan changes. Sure, it bumped a few more off the fence but nothing has really changed.

 

[Golden Falcon]

How come they are called union busters? But when employees unionize and break a company they are never called "Company Busters"?

BTW That was almost enough for me to want to send in a card.

what company was busted by the unions ?

 

[pilotyip]

what company was busted by the unions ?

UAL, NWA, etc. GM, Chrysler, USSteel, should I go on?

 

[Splert]

UAL, NWA, etc. GM, Chrysler, USSteel, should I go on?

Sure they did.

How many GEOs do you own Mister Nissan. I have a Chevy Tahoe and a Honda Mini Van. We tried to buy an GM, Chevy or Chrysler van but they were and are crap. Is the design and R and D team at these corporation Union too.

UAL and NWA suffered due to 9/11. Executives did very well though.

 

[pilotyip]

Sure they did.

How many GEOs do you own Mister Nissan. I have a Chevy Tahoe and a Honda Mini Van. We tried to buy an GM, Chevy or Chrysler van but they were and are crap. Is the design and R and D team at these corporation Union too.

UAL and NWA suffered due to 9/11. Executives did very well though.

From the WSJ

In 1994 the UAW pushed GM into a deal it knew it could most likely not fulfill. It gave unlimited medical and COLA to retirees. GM knew a lengthy strike might drive them into BK. They had exhausted the equity markets, and borrowing was the only solution. Much like living off your credit cards. So they bet on maybe things would work, but they knew in the end they were in trouble. The power of a potential union strike drove them to make a bad management decision.

As they lost market share to foreign rivals, Detroit's auto makers and the UAW lost the power to set standards on labor costs. Yet during the prosperous 1990s, they seemed reluctant to accept the fact that their business model -- with its expensive defined-benefit health and pension programs -- was driving the domestic industry toward ruin. The UAW and its biggest employer have effectively conceded that their golden age of dominance is over.

GM executives consistently acknowledged that it couldn't be competitive in North America without a fundamental change in its labor-cost structure.

The UAW got a harsh lesson in the consequences of bankruptcy proceedings when former GM parts unit Delphi Corp. sought Chapter 11 protection in 2005, and pushed through substantial job and wage cuts under a deal subsidized by GM. In 2009 GM followed the same path.

GM's obligation to provide health care for 412,356 union members, retirees and surviving spouses lies at the heart of yesterday's agreement. Even after a partial overhaul of retiree health-care benefits in 2005, GM still faced a $51 billion obligation to UAW members. Health-care obligations added more than $1,900 to the cost of every GM vehicle sold in the U.S. in 2006, a heavy burden given that many GM vehicles sold for less than competing Toyota vehicles. There was no money to spend on better vehicles, the union had absorbed all of the profits.

BTW Many UAW members became millionaires wit the stock options offered in the 80?s, well the ones who took advantage of them.

 

[Splert]

Which airline is GM?

I'm sure your family bought a fleet of 1994 Pontiac Grand Am's.

What a choice!

Also Retiree medical is limited. Not unlimited. Medicare is primary and the retiree medical is secondary. Medicare Part A and B paid the LION share of the expenses. But you knew that before you Googled and then cut and copied and pasted.

Management makes choices and they make a bad ones. BK is not death it is structured reorganization and is the check to both Management and Labor. GM should have filed BK because SALES were declining because they had crap designs like the Grand Am. They owned it and you are trying to pass the buck to labor.

Without a union there is no check on Managements greed, period.

Jetblue is the proof.

 

[pilotyip]

Which airline is GM? Without a union there is no check on Managements greed, period.

Actually thay run scheduled service between a number of US Cities on theie CV-580 fleet.

Now back to the main event, your post fits in with what I see the average union activist pull out of the scripted book. "Management can do nothing right and unions can do nothing wrong" The true is somewhere in between. Unions can bust companies, and companies can bust unions

BTW Have never owned a GM prodcut in my life, Ford man

 

[Splert]

Oh so there is a middle ground.

Never read that from you in the past.

Seems like your base line is that Unions are evil and management is Baby Jesus.

 

[pilotyip]

See there is no middle ground with you.

I support a union at JetBlue and that means to you we are no different than a GM worker.

Later.

Sure there is, I even posted I worked there I would send in a card. Some places need a union, some places don't maybe JB is in the first category. My concern is with pro-union guys at my previous airlines, that were never happy and were always looking for a bitch.

BTW Of course a JB pilot is not a GM worker, the GM guys made more money.

 

[Splert]

I missed read your reply.

I'll take that but I thought you posted that "if you were anti union" You "might" send in a card or vote.

Oh well. Jetblue needs a union and I convinced the majority of the pilots are very reasonable.

 

[oldxfr8dog]

Randy, thanks for recognizing that there are two sides. JB is making record profits. GOOD!
They are cutting worker benefits, are forcing greater productivity (although JB is already #2 behind WN), and paying cash for things like International JFK Terminals, airframes, and pre-paying debt out to 2038.
And then cry poor regarding earnings!
If I am giving 110% for this company (previously about 200%!), at least give me average compensation. JB pilots are FAR below average.
I'm not trying to burn this place down, I just want some recognition of my hard work besides a "Lift Award". A Lift Award is an e-mailed "Atta Boy". No cash, day off, etc...
Oh, The "Lift" is pimped as such a GREAT deal.
I'm not running at Lucy's football again.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Randy, thanks for recognizing that there are two sides. JB is making record profits. GOOD!
They are cutting worker benefits, are forcing greater productivity (although JB is already #2 behind WN), and paying cash for things like International JFK Terminals, airframes, and pre-paying debt out to 2038.
And then cry poor regarding earnings!
If I am giving 110% for this company (previously about 200%!), at least give me average compensation. JB pilots are FAR below average.
I'm not trying to burn this place down, I just want some recognition of my hard work besides a "Lift Award". A Lift Award is an e-mailed "Atta Boy". No cash, day off, etc...
Oh, The "Lift" is pimped as such a GREAT deal.
I'm not running at Lucy's football again.

Don't forget paying themselves massive bonuses. How much has exec compensation increased in the last couple of years?

 

[BeachBummer]

Last year 0 zero... Things are tight need to get that ROIC... Ya know but on a go forward basis um yea, pertaining to that, while adding some color, um, yea... Well regarding the previous question hats a good push back and we'd like to form a committee to fully understand... Aaaaaah, right what was that question?

Yea um average increase 40%+

 

[brokeflyer]

How come they are called union busters? But when employees unionize and break a company they are never called "Company Busters"?

BTW That was almost enough for me to want to send in a card.

because the pilots unionize for better working conditions, which makes it a great place to work. then you happy employes. Most flight department unions actually save the company from its own destruction.

 

[Smarta$$]

Hey yip, in your honest opinion, who has ruined more companies, unions or management?