Unfortunately CAL will lose it's 50 seat scope.

[Jetjockey]

Don't have the actual numbers, so I'm spit-balling here.
Also, it's a generalization of group attitudes - individual attitudes may differ.

A - Mainline pilots 60-65 - 5%
B - Mainline pilots 50-60 - 30%
C - Mainline pilots 20-50 - 25%
D - Regional pilots all ages - 40%

Group A sold out everyone else to take care of themselves.
Group B will need to maximize the years they have left and make up for all they've lost. Why be different than the previous group?
Group C has the most lose in this whole mess and seem to be the most vocal about scope - and with good reason.
Group D, it's been suggested, should be overjoyed to staple themselves to the smelly side of Group C regardless of QOL, security and pay they currently enjoy. Group D wouldn't mind if integration was fair. Group D is beneath contempt of Group C. Group C will have NO integration whatsoever - They think they got theirs (though not to the extent of A & B). Group D must then also look out for themselves.

So, we have 25% with the most to lose against 75% who either won't care or have something to gain from seeing scope go away - not to mention the fat cats who would love nothing more than to pay RJ wages for wide-body captains.

Unless groups unite, and on terms acceptable to all, what do you think will happen to domestic narrow-body flying?

What your forgetting is group D gets NO VOTE in this matter. They don't get to vote on Mainline contracts.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Ya, also I think B is too large. I think the last 5-10 cleaned many more out with early outs to save lumps, medical, etc. I'd give it somewhere around 20% max. I believe add the rest to the 20-50, or the majority of overlubed group(or maybe underlubed, since they didn't even kiss us first). That's going to be the majority for the forseeable future. I think we will be voting no much more often, except to dump ALPA National. Those self centered 5% will not get what they want.

 

[nimtz]

JetJackoff lists his resume in his profile. Nice work Nancy. You looking for a new job?

Do you think all the big committees are filled with altruistic junior guys such as yourself thinking about the future? Get a clue, clueless.

Can you explain to me your logic of how a 737-800 has greater range then a 700 because it goes faster? I want to take your knowlege to flight ops in order to seek promotion!

 

[nimtz]

Group D, it's been suggested, should be overjoyed to staple themselves to the smelly side of Group C regardless of QOL, security and pay they currently enjoy. Group D wouldn't mind if integration was fair. Group D is beneath contempt of Group C. Group C will have NO integration whatsoever - They think they got theirs (though not to the extent of A & B). Group D must then also look out for themselves.

Group D can go interview just like Group C did over the last 15 years. After all Group D has no say in the process unless they want to pay the company to work once again. Members of Group D like Joe The Career Guy can stay on top of his list. He'll just have to accept the fact his company has peaked and over the next decade will suffer from significant shrinkage. That's something guys like Joe can all relate to...:laugh:

 

[jonjuan]

How about when pilots start out at over $50K and heath insurance starts from day 1, with second year pay in the $90-$100K range? Bankruptcy contracts won't last forever...

Sounds like WN or DL or UPS or FDX.

 

[sleeves]

Another thing Joe and his ilk might want to consider is the lack of security they really have. As new A/C are introduced why do you think you will fly them? Why not start new company's that have all new employees at year one scale fly them? People might even pay for their training at such a place making a move that much more smart for MGT.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Another thing Joe and his ilk might want to consider is the lack of security they really have. As new A/C are introduced why do you think you will fly them? Why not start new company's that have all new employees at year one scale fly them? People might even pay for their training at such a place making a move that much more smart for MGT.

That is a concern, and one that ALPA seems all to happy to conspire WITH management on...That is what Compass was and it was created by a partnership of management and ALPA.

Guess what these new carriers do to the pressure on mainline pay and workrules...They aren't good for EITHER side of this debate and show how mainline scope failures actually put further downward pressure on pay and workrules.

 

[sleeves]

That is a concern, and one that ALPA seems all to happy to conspire WITH management on...That is what Compass was and it was created by a partnership of management and ALPA.

Guess what these new carriers do to the pressure on mainline pay and workrules...They aren't good for EITHER side of this debate and show how mainline scope failures actually put further downward pressure on pay and workrules.

Yep if our scope protections fail all pilots will lose, you included in the long run Joe. All flying done by one carrier eliminates the whipsaw and this downward pressure, it is our goal.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Yep if our scope protections fail all pilots will lose, you included in the long run Joe. All flying done by one carrier eliminates the whipsaw and this downward pressure, it is our goal.

If you take the flying back with the pilots, then yes it could benefit me...If you just take the flying back without the pilots, then it doesn't really matter if you take the flying back.

I suspect the large regionals have a plan B either way. Republic is the first, Skywest and PNCL will be next...That plan B is that if their F4D flying is taken, they will simply become your competition at much lower costs...Something that may be even worse for you long term.

 

[sleeves]

If you take the flying back with the pilots, then yes it could benefit me...If you just take the flying back without the pilots, then it doesn't really matter if you take the flying back.

I suspect the large regionals have a plan B either way. Republic is the first, Skywest and PNCL will be next...That plan B is that if their F4D flying is taken, they will simply become your competition at much lower costs...Something that may be even worse for you long term.

Competition. I am for it. One of the reasons I am for increasing our scope protections is so that we stop funding our competition. A couple of airlines have tried this already though and did not fair too well. Good luck.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

I suspect the large regionals have a plan B either way. Republic is the first, Skywest and PNCL will be next...That plan B is that if their F4D flying is taken, they will simply become your competition at much lower costs...Something that may be even worse for you long term.

That sounds like a great plan, Joe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_Air

 

[JoeMerchant]

That sounds like a great plan, Joe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_Air

Indy Air primarily had 50 seaters. Then they bought some Airbuses to go with them at the end in desperation...That won't work.

Republic bought two established carriers, Midwest and Frontier. Air Canada Jazz is starting a charter operation with 757s I believe. The next "Indy Airs" will be smarter and more capable of competing. In addition, they will have 90 seat RJs to feed with which are much more competitive than a fleet of 50 seaters.

Skywest probably won't pull the trigger until they are forced, but I'm sure they are planing on it.

It's funny that a Delta pilot like doesn't believe anyone else can grow to be the next Delta...Delta started out as a crop dusting service....Nothing says there can't be others that grow into the next "Delta".....

 

[Bako Cap]

Skywest probably won't pull the trigger until they are forced, but I'm sure they are planing on it.
....

10 year contracts will keep the BOD and upper management weathly. There is currently little reason (no matter the aircraft size) for SkyWest to morph into an independent. Well, for at least for another decade.

 

[boxjockey]

Don't have the actual numbers, so I'm spit-balling here.
Also, it's a generalization of group attitudes - individual attitudes may differ.

A - Mainline pilots 60-65 - 5%
B - Mainline pilots 50-60 - 30%
C - Mainline pilots 20-50 - 25%
D - Regional pilots all ages - 40%

Group A sold out everyone else to take care of themselves.
Group B will need to maximize the years they have left and make up for all they've lost. Why be different than the previous group?
Group C has the most lose in this whole mess and seem to be the most vocal about scope - and with good reason.
Group D, it's been suggested, should be overjoyed to staple themselves to the smelly side of Group C regardless of QOL, security and pay they currently enjoy. Group D wouldn't mind if integration was fair. Group D is beneath contempt of Group C. Group C will have NO integration whatsoever - They think they got theirs (though not to the extent of A & B). Group D must then also look out for themselves.

So, we have 25% with the most to lose against 75% who either won't care or have something to gain from seeing scope go away - not to mention the fat cats who would love nothing more than to pay RJ wages for wide-body captains.

Unless groups unite, and on terms acceptable to all, what do you think will happen to domestic narrow-body flying?

So you are like Joe, don't want to give up your seniority at a regional, so you will try and bark your way onto a major list, based off of DOH? Is that basically what you think is "fair"? I just want to make sure I have it right, that you don't want to take the necessary steps to go and get a job at a major on your own. I used to work for a regional, great company. They don't have anything that belongs to them, they simply do what their parent company says to do, and for how much they tell them to do it for. What makes you feel like pilots from said company should be "fairly integrated" into a company that doesn't even own them or have any business with them other than a fee-for-departure contract? Get real, brah!!! If you want to go and work for one of these companies, then stick your hand up and give it a try. If not, then simply sit on your hands and see what comes your way. Your choice.

box

 

[SFR]

Unfortunatly, Joe "Jackarse" Merchant is right... Mgmt will show up with a big bag of dead presidents to slide under the table.... and presto!!! The arbitrators going to rule in favor of Mgmt, with the stipulation that no CAL pilot will be furloughed as a result... And Mgmt brings on 70+ seaters and shrinks the company through attrition when retirements start again...

Wait and see!!!!

You mean slide the bag under the table to ALPA who will then....

That can't happen....we picketed.