Ugly DAL/ASA rumor

[FurloughedAgain]

I also find that there is significantly less of a noticable pitch-change when you slow to the min maneuvering speed for the configuration you're in prior to selecting the next increment of flaps.

I agree with the poster who said that if you select flaps at the max flap speed the pitching moment is much greater. There are quite a few pilots who call for "8 and 20" at 214.9 knots. These are MAX speeds.

It's pretty funny to watch the guy in the other seat quietly "hint" their discomfort as you slow towards min maneuvering for your configuration by putting their hand on the flap lever. Come on folks. With a little planning there is rarely a need to use the flaps as speedbrakes -- with a little more planning there is almost never a need to use the speedbrake handle at all. (except during a descent in icing conditions in order to keep the wings warm).

I'll try the "turn" trick next time I have an opportunity. Anything helps. I'm pleased to see this thread turn into something constructive.

 

[CheapFlyer]

Another non-standard way to minimize the baloon:

If you are in a descent with the auto pilot flying - Go into pitch mode, select flaps 8 then 20, then resume VS mode.

Works like a charm.

-CF

 

[DDpaysoff]

Three clicks on the spoiler lever for flaps 20 also works(provided of course you are at flaps 8 min. +17), but I think pitch mode use described above works better and saves you some math. Also, I hope company inserts a note in FSM that "Flaps 8 and 20" is not a standard call. Unless, Wing ice is on I go flaps 8 until slope alive, or speed is close to green line, or large +/-. If a steep descent in downwind I use flaps 8 and spoilers. Anything to avoid flying around level at flaps 20 for extended periods of time. Anybody else do this?

 

[bvt1151]

try waiting until you're near min manuevering. The 230 or 215 knots most drop the flaps at creates the excessive pitch. So much lift at that airspeed requires a huge downward pitch moment.

Of course this requires that you plan ahead and not use the boards, nor the flaps as a crutch to slow you down.

 

[wms]

I wait until I'm slow before I use flaps. At DFW they want you at the 210 restriction from downwind until final unless otherwise told, so I use the flaps-8-in-the-turn method, and call for flaps 20 in the descent. I'll try pitch mode for that since any vert mode for descent is not considered non-std for us. I deploy the spoilers last only if I need the extra descent rate, but that's just a carry-over from my old Lear job. On IOE I was hesitant to fly around the patch in flaps 20, but was told it was ok by the IP, and have done so ever since at DFW and ATL, even on line checks, with no complaints.

 

[grinder]

I always like to point out that if you can't work on a plane you can't bill from the plane. Business guys hate not making money during the flight. RJ's suck if you're trying to utilize the time. It's tough to use a laptop on any plane, but a RJ or smaller is a show stopper. I never knew this till I got furloughed and became a pax.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Whatever - I've done it. I don't find any difference between doing it in the back of an RJ, or back of a 757. And yes, when I'm on business, I buy a ticket. But the neat new toy is the TREO600. You can bill a file and send the bill during taxi in.

 

[General Lee]

Fins,

In the back of a 757 you can actually take a crap when you NEED to---because you have a choice of bathrooms. Also, you can do a lot more work in the first class section of a 757 (where the medallion people want to be)---especially if the guy next to you is SUPER SIZED. If you have one of those guys next to you from DFW to OAK on a CR7---you are hating life--and smelling his sweaty armpits while he is dripping on you.....yummy.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Tim47SIP]

General

Come on man, it does not matter what aircraft you are on if you are sitting next to an oversized pax. I was stationed in Hawaii for a few years and frequently traveled to Seatle one a month to give check rides in the Sim. I flew 75/76/ and 77's as a coach pax in the back. I cant tell you how many times Ive been stuck next to a big Samoan. Great people, but very painfull. There have been a couple of occasions that I told the FA I was not sitting next to someone who needed two seat belt extension. I ended up waiting for another flight. I also travel in the back of the RJ and Mad Dog to work and back every 3 days and I can tell you there is no difference. I watch people use laptops all the time on the RJ. A lot of the pax I sit next to like the idea of no center row. You are 100% correct though about the heads and stage lengths. I really dont see how people do it on our OAK, ONT, SNA, JFK, DCI, JAX, and some others comming up in June. But I never hear anything but thanks, great flight, or when I am not flying, Great Landing!

 

[General Lee]

Tim,

It does make a difference if you can get a first class seat. Come on---that makes sense--doesn't it? And, you may not have been in the back during boarding or half way through those long flights. Passengers are moaning constantly---sounding like COWS---moooing. When the cart is in the aisle-----people can't get up to crap. Those large people make it hard to be productive---and on long flights it can be terrible. Sure, it might be the same in the back of a 764---but the coveted business traveller that we still need has a good chance of getting up front. That is the key.

Hey, overall I like the 70 seaters, the cockpit is great---and I think our furloughs would love to try them too. But, when it comes to the long flights on them---they don't cut the mustard. (what does that saying mean anyway?)

Bye Bye---General Lee