Ugly and Unexpected Attrition at Horizon

[turbinesurgeon]

Just because something is part of the job right now doesn't mean you shouldn't work to fix it. Almost all the lines at QX average 400 TAFB. That is the equivalent of working 70-80 hours a week at a normal job. Almost all of the trips offered on the lines are four day trips, which aren't exactly popular. There are no day trips on any of the lines (except a few CRJ lines sometimes, never on either Dash). I'm sure those factors are part of the reason that many pilots are beginning to vote with their feet here. 400 hours TAFB is not family friendly whatsoever, and at the end of the day family comes first. Yes, you signed up to be away from your family but that doesn't mean you're not going to gripe and work to make the number of days/night away as few as possible.

And its how much we get paid for that four day trip is what kills me, 18 hours, maybe 20. So here is some of the quality of life issues, if I am going to be away from my family on a 4 day I want to at least get compensated for it but instead I get a bad schedule and a little pay check. To me its not worth the sacrifice of leaving my family, so time at home is worth more than gold to me. I think mgmt is too busy nickle and diming the senior pilots so they forget what it is doing to the junior guys.

 

[pilotyip]

Solution?

And its how much we get paid for that four day trip is what kills me, 18 hours, maybe 20. So here is some of the quality of life issues, if I am going to be away from my family on a 4 day I want to at least get compensated for it but instead I get a bad schedule and a little pay check. To me its not worth the sacrifice of leaving my family, so time at home is worth more than gold to me. I think mgmt is too busy nickle and diming the senior pilots so they forget what it is doing to the junior guys.

What is the solution, more pilots to do the same flying? How about another place to work, like NJ, 7 off 7 on?

 

[turbodriver]

The solution starts with better rigs instead of that 4:1 crap that Horizon's running right now.

And it doesn't surprise me one bit that LH is still living in LA LA land in regards to attracting more people to sit right seat for six years

 

[Capi_Cafre']

What is the solution, more pilots to do the same flying? How about another place to work, like NJ, 7 off 7 on?

Sounds like you haven't even considered the possibility that management would choose to do X amount of flying with max. TAFB just to increase its negotiating capital.

 

[pilotyip]

I see

Sounds like you haven't even considered the possibility that management would choose to do X amount of flying with max. TAFB just to increase its negotiating capital.

Ah! The old negotiating tricks, keep the attrition up it will get their attention. You can really show them who is boss when you vote with your feet.

 

[ReverseSensing]

The solution starts with better rigs instead of that 4:1 crap that Horizon's running right now.

Three things we gotta fix:

1) Better trip rig or a minimum daily credit calculated BY DAY for EACH DAY of a multi-day trip.

2) Reserve rules.

3) Line guarantee, i.e., awarded a 98 credit hour line, your min guarantee is 98 hours.

Yip,

Management doesn't care about the efficient use of the pilots it has, which is why I have a single 25-minute leg on day 2 of a 4-day trip next week. Not the last day or the first day so I could spend more time with my family, but the middle of the d@mned trip so I can spend more time in a friggin' Red Lion.

Somebody's gotta be out there flying the airplanes while I'm "enjoying" 22 out of 24 hours in one hotel or another. Thank goodness for booze.

 

[turbinesurgeon]

What is the solution, more pilots to do the same flying? How about another place to work, like NJ, 7 off 7 on?

Its more complicated than your answer, but its the opposite of what you said would make a great start. Qx uses its airplanes efficiently but not the flight crews, I would bet if we were all built more efficient schedules it would have a four prong effect.

1. more days off.
2. you would need less reserves, ie less pilots.
3.Pilots could make more money on their shorter trips.
4. You could actually pick up a trip in open time and still have a day off or two.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Its more complicated than your answer, but its the opposite of what you said would make a great start. Qx uses its airplanes efficiently but not the flight crews, I would bet if we were all built more efficient schedules it would have a four prong effect.

1. more days off.
2. you would need less reserves, ie less pilots.
3.Pilots could make more money on their shorter trips.
4. You could actually pick up a trip in open time and still have a day off or two.

But, that would make too much sense!

 

[pilotyip]

Its more complicated than your answer, but its the opposite of what you said would make a great start. Qx uses its airplanes efficiently but not the flight crews, I would bet if we were all built more efficient schedules it would have a four prong effect.

1. more days off.
2. you would need less reserves, ie less pilots.
3.Pilots could make more money on their shorter trips.
4. You could actually pick up a trip in open time and still have a day off or two.

Wouldn't that meaning using the airplanes less efficiently? i.e. more cost? The UAW has a long history in the auto industry of using asets less efficiently. How has it worked out for them? Members 1979 750K, members 2007 400K

 

[turbodriver]

Have you seen a 4 day Horizon trip?

 

[turbinesurgeon]

Wouldn't that meaning using the airplanes less efficiently? i.e. more cost? The UAW has a long history in the auto industry of using asets less efficiently. How has it worked out for them? Members 1979 750K, members 2007 400K

I am not sure why that would lead to using the aircraft more efficiently. If you worked here you would have a better understanding. Maybe somebody else here could explain it better. I wouldn't compare us to the auto industry since its not the union holding us back.

 

[NWaviator]

The RJ trips have some 5/6 days away fro base. Two 3 day trips back to back is way to much. There is a bunch more SEA flying for the RJ on the next bid, there are even some SEA overnights. Maybe they should just put a base there. 6 planes should be back from DEN by the end of Nov.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Maybe they should just put a [jet] base there.

I'd be all for that. I'd love to see more than one jet base option. I think it'd be good for the company and good for the pilot group.

But then I've just discovered the flaw in the plan, as far as the company is concerned: it would be good for the pilot group.

Doh!