UAX Letter to UAL Pilots over jumpseat dispute.

[ArcticFlier]

You can tell me, but you have to kill me? No SkyWest pilot had the balls to write that letter. You are not fooling anyone.

Let it be known:

Whereas: I know the guy personally

Whereas: He is a SKYW pilot

Whereas: He co-wrote it..........as did the JSC from the aforementioned airlines (team effort)

Whereas: Putting his name out here does nothing. UAL's MEC knows who he, and the others are.

Whereas: You're talkin outta your ass

 

[ATR Pirate]

I'm not sure the Jumpseat Denial program is the best idea. I mean, United pilots didn't pick the way the system is. But this is what it has come down to, how else do you get your point across? All of the UAX airlines have been begging and negotiation with United for over 9 months now on this issue. I'm a Skywest commuter on the UAX side of operations..and I thought whomever wrote that letter had a pretty large pair to lay it down like that. I wish there were a better way though..

 

[Freeze_gopher]

UAX pilots still should've been notified about the letter and what it said. The information campaign and a request for help are good ideas. Those good ideas are lost in the ultimatum that ends the letter. Frustration is not a good reason to start a fight. We should have been consulted prior to the release of the letter. I'll inform and ask for help, but I won't deny jumpseats.

 

[avrorj-85]

Deleted...

 

[B314Clipper]

Not a new problem

This has been going on for years. When ACA was still around we had to fight with UA to make sure our guys got on our flights. ORF was especially bad. They got mad because UA cut back the flying and replaced mainline with RJs. Not the ACA pilots fault.
The other problem was the number of jumpseaters allowed. ACA/Indy (and a lot of other LLCs) used to take as many jumpseaters as we had empty seats in the back regardless of airline. We also allowed the seat in the cockpit until 9/11 changed that. And when we had airbuses, we even let pilots ride on the FA jumpseat. We flew a lot of United guys when we were still UEX. Almost never failed that they would thank us for the ride and say that they wished that UA had the same policy. I commuted for four years and saw more than a few UA planes leave the gate with empty seats in the back because they had taken their ONE jumpseater.
I agree that you'll never win a jumpseat war, but why shouldn't the airline's own pilots have priority on their own plane?

 

[Speedtape]

This has been going on for years. When ACA was still around we had to fight with UA to make sure our guys got on our flights. ORF was especially bad. They got mad because UA cut back the flying and replaced mainline with RJs. Not the ACA pilots fault.
The other problem was the number of jumpseaters allowed. ACA/Indy (and a lot of other LLCs) used to take as many jumpseaters as we had empty seats in the back regardless of airline. We also allowed the seat in the cockpit until 9/11 changed that. And when we had airbuses, we even let pilots ride on the FA jumpseat. We flew a lot of United guys when we were still UEX. Almost never failed that they would thank us for the ride and say that they wished that UA had the same policy. I commuted for four years and saw more than a few UA planes leave the gate with empty seats in the back because they had taken their ONE jumpseater.
I agree that you'll never win a jumpseat war, but why shouldn't the airline's own pilots have priority on their own plane?

There is an injustice, therefore, there is the letter. Rosa Parks and her actions, all by herself, righted an injustice! Nothing will change without action.

It appears that the UAL pilots benefit under the convolution that exists. Maybe the convolution is by design and scheme. Sometimes, things have to reach a crisis, before there is resolution!

Take a stand, or take a seat--in the gate after the plane has left! Fight for what's right! Don't be bullied or be afraid to stand up!

Had John Hancock and others been afraid to stand up and not sign their name to the Declaration of Independence, an action that was a potential death sentence, we would all still be slaves and governed by the British Throne! Fish and Chips anyone?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Had John Hancock and others been afraid to stand up and not sign their name to the Declaration of Independence, an action that was a potential death sentence, we would all still be slaves and governed by the British Throne! Fish and Chips anyone?

Easy with your Rosa Parks civil disobedience talk.... Are you willing to NOT "ride the bus" as the black community did. What does that mean? Refusing to fly? You gonna do a sick out to get the jumpseat?

Hancock, Adams, Jefferson, Franklin, et all, knew they commiting treason to the British Crown, and if unsuccessful they'd hang.


So... what are you really saying?

 

[JoeMerchant]

There is an injustice, therefore, there is the letter. Rosa Parks and her actions, all by herself, righted an injustice! Nothing will change without action.

It appears that the UAL pilots benefit under the convolution that exists. Maybe the convolution is by design and scheme. Sometimes, things have to reach a crisis, before there is resolution!

Take a stand, or take a seat--in the gate after the plane has left! Fight for what's right! Don't be bullied or be afraid to stand up!

Had John Hancock and others been afraid to stand up and not sign their name to the Declaration of Independence, an action that was a potential death sentence, we would all still be slaves and governed by the British Throne! Fish and Chips anyone?

Couldn't have said it better....What caused this change? I am hearing a lot of one time ALPA cheerleaders start to change their tune a little...

This unified defense of the UAX jumpseat was accomplished by a group of non-union, ALPA, and Teamsters pilots....without ALPA...I've never seen something so bold from ALPA...

We need more of this type unification....not less....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Easy with your Rosa Parks civil disobedience talk.... Are you willing to NOT "ride the bus" as the black community did. What does that mean? Refusing to fly? You gonna do a sick out to get the jumpseat?

Hancock, Adams, Jefferson, Franklin, et all, knew they commiting treason to the British Crown, and if unsuccessful they'd hang.


So... what are you really saying?

Many are saying the double standard within ALPA/profession of regional pilots being "owned" by the mainline is going to end....Many are willing to cause some civil disobedience to stop this injustice....There will be pain.....But the mainline MECs and ALPA need to realize that the status quo is not acceptable....ALPA doesn't really need to start more fires....They are thin ice as it stands...

One has to wonder if there is any true leadership in ALPA....or are they all like you and PCL128?

 

[SaturnPilot]

We need more of this type unification....not less....

I agree it's nice to see regional carriers bind together for a purpose, but I'm afraid the ultimatum in this letter will serve to drive a further wedge between major and regional pilots. Lets hope that's not the case.

 

[Formula 1]

Let it be known:

Whereas: I know the guy personally

Whereas: He is a SKYW pilot

Whereas: He co-wrote it..........as did the JSC from the aforementioned airlines (team effort)

Whereas: Putting his name out here does nothing. UAL's MEC knows who he, and the others are.

Whereas: You're talkin outta your ass

I am talking out my ass? Why don't you read the RLA and make the determination that this "Let it be known" phantom of the night cannot sign your pilot group to this silly letter.

If this is true than his time at SkyWest is limited. He'll be terminated or he will be forced to leave within the next year.

My question to you is this, What right does this single individual have to sign for the collective when he has no authority of the union given in the RLA. SAPA by definition is a employee relations group and is not covered by the RLA and has no legal protections and authority to represent the pilots of SkyWest. If anything, SkyWest pilots who get terminated because they fail to get to work because of this letter have grounds to sue this one individual. In fact SkyWest has grounds to terminate this individual for claiming he represents the SkyWest pilot group. All you guys are doing is hurting your pilot group.

Best of luck.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I agree it's nice to see regional carriers bind together for a purpose, but I'm afraid the ultimatum in this letter will serve to drive a further wedge between major and regional pilots. Lets hope that's not the case.

The mainline MECs along with ALPA and APA created the wedge.....They also have the ability to remove the wedge or drive it deeper....Interesting that it took an independant group to do what ALPA couldn't do....Bring multiple carriers together for a common purpose...I'm impressed.....ALPA could learn a lot from the UAX pilot group....

 

[ArcticFlier]

I am talking out my ass? Why don't you read the RLA and make the determination that this "Let it be known" phantom of the night cannot sign your pilot group to this silly letter.

If this is true than his time at SkyWest is limited. He'll be terminated or he will be forced to leave within the next year.

My question to you is this, What right does this single individual have to sign for the collective when he has no authority of the union given in the RLA. SAPA by definition is a employee relations group and is not covered by the RLA and has no legal protections and authority to represent the pilots of SkyWest. If anything, SkyWest pilots who get terminated because they fail to get to work because of this letter have grounds to sue this one individual. In fact SkyWest has grounds to terminate this individual for claiming he represents the SkyWest pilot group. All you guys are doing is hurting your pilot group.

Best of luck.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[SaturnPilot]

The mainline MECs along with ALPA and APA created the wedge.....They also have the ability to remove the wedge or drive it deeper....Interesting that it took an independant group to do what ALPA couldn't do....Bring multiple carriers together for a common purpose...I'm impressed.....ALPA could learn a lot from the UAX pilot group....

we can either place blame on who we think is responsible for the industry's problems, or we can try to fix them. Issuing ultimatums to pilots is adding to our problems instead of adding to the solution.

 

[JoeMerchant]

we can either place blame on who we think is responsible for the industry's problems, or we can try to fix them. Issuing ultimatums to pilots is adding to our problems instead of adding to the solution.

1. We can't fix anything until the behavior is changed....It isn't regional pilots who don't think of the mainline pilots as "objects"....It is mainline pilots who think regional pilots are "objects" to use as negotiating chips...Nothing will change until that attitude changes....

2. If the mainline won't change a simple code in the computer that was already changed for THEIR benefit, they won't change anything meaningful....This issue speaks volumes of the attitude we are facing...Quit coming up with excuses and make the change....Do what is right for once!

 

[SaturnPilot]

1. We can't fix anything until the behavior is changed....It isn't regional pilots who don't think of the mainline pilots as "objects"....It is mainline pilots who think regional pilots are "objects" to use as negotiating chips...Nothing will change until that attitude changes....

so, every major pilot sees regional pilots as "objects", huh?

I will submit that your attitude is just as much of the problem as the attitudes of SOME major pilots who think regional pilots are beneath them. You bring no solutions to this conflict.

2. If the mainline won't change a simple code in the computer that was already changed for THEIR benefit, they won't change anything meaningful....This issue speaks volumes of the attitude we are facing...Quit coming up with excuses and make the change....Do what is right for once!

I'll get right on that since my name is really Steve W. and I'm the chairman of the UAL MEC posing as someone with a CL-65 type.

 

[JoeMerchant]

so, every major pilot sees regional pilots as "objects", huh?

Absolutely not....Just the ones in positions of power within ALPA....The decision makers......

I will submit that your attitude is just as much of the problem as the attitudes of SOME major pilots who think regional pilots are beneath them. You bring no solutions to this conflict.

My attitude has been formed after 14 years of participating in ALPA and over many trips to Herndon....this issue confims my beliefs...

I'll get right on that since my name is really Steve W. and I'm the chairman of the UAL MEC posing as someone with a CL-65 type.

No, but you are defending him and his actions because you are an ALPA cheerleader....

 

[SaturnPilot]

Absolutely not....Just the ones in positions of power within ALPA....The decision makers......

another broad generalization based on no fact what-so-ever.

My attitude has been formed after 14 years of participating in ALPA and over many trips to Herndon....this issue confims my beliefs...

ALPA leadership turns over at a rapid rate. I'm sorry you were unhappy with your ALPA collegues attitudes while you worked in ALPA, but I'm guessing if you approached those people with any hint of the attitude you have now then that's probably why you were unsuccessful.

No, but you are defending him and his actions because you are an ALPA cheerleader....

Hey Decertification Fairy, go ahead and show me just ONE of my posts where I defend the UAL MEC Chairman. Your only argument with me ever is to call me an ALPA Cheerleader in your pathetic attempt to convince ignorant readers that I support ALPA no matter what. The reality is that I make decisions based on what I think is best for my job and the industry. If you can come up with a solution to the problems within ALPA, I'd be all ears and happy to support it. So far you have not come even close to that as your only suggestions are ideas you have spent less than 30 seconds researching the feasibility of, such as your independent ASA union that is financially next to impossible.

 

[flyboyike]

So far you have not come even close to that as your only suggestions are ideas you have spent less than 30 seconds researching the feasibility of, such as your independent ASA union that is financially next to impossible.

As impossible as, say, USAPA?

 

[Caspian27]

we can either place blame on who we think is responsible for the industry's problems, or we can try to fix them. Issuing ultimatums to pilots is adding to our problems instead of adding to the solution.

Well, what other impetus or motivation is there for UAL to change it's computer boarding priority at this point? This has been going on for 2 years. They've apparently tried every other avenue and it didn't work. They tried to work together to fix them like you suggest, but that was unsuccessful.

When everything else fails, and the priority is still not right, what else can you do? I like this as little as everyone else...but it is super-frustrating trying to commute on UAX due primarily to this issue.