UAV's for UPT Grads

[Mooseflyer]

I, too, was one who recieved a speech from the leadership for picking a heavy instead of a fighter (although I didn't have the "honor" of an O6 interview). Do I think flying a fighter would be cool? Sure, for about a month. Like dtfl said, in the end it comes down to QOL for some folks. I decided I'd rather travel the globe drinking brews with my buds, and live at the beach when I came home. Simple choice really. Have I ever regretted it? Not once. Thankfully it takes all types to make the world go 'round. Not everyone makes a UPT MWS choice out of "fear".

Regarding the UAV assignment - SFW? If they stay AD for 20, they'll have made more $$$ than just about anyone of equivilant age getting into aviation at the moment over the same time period. Then again, so will someone who manages the bowling alley and golf course. Sad really.

 

[LJDRVR]

I'm surprised the USAF is having such a difficult time deciding how to staff the UAS's, the need is very bad right now.

Common sense would be they segregate the two communities completely.

This would allow the pilots to actually fly airplanes, without having to worry about losing their skills sitting in a trailer operating an "airplane". You have the added benefit of a contained talent pool of UAS operators who have their entire career to carefully develop their unique skill set.

The only question left is who do you put in the trailer? I think the suggestion for enlisted folks is a good idea, but highly unlikely, even though there's a history and as somebody said, there are quite a few prior enlisted airline pilots.

I think the best route would be to handle it the same way the Navy handles their special warfare Officer Corps. (SEAL Officers are all prior-E SEALS.) IOW, Pipeline enlisted sensor operators who finish their degrees to OTS, commission them, send them to a modified IFS type program then train them as operators.

Given the emergence of UAS's and the fact that they will proliferate as we move forward, this would be a very sought after career field, attracting the cream of the enlisted crop. Heck, reserve a couple of UPT slots a year for the best operators.

 

[Caveman]

Why do they need a degree and why do they need to be commissioned? Take motivated enlisted guys/gals that are interested, train them to operate UAV's and if they are successful fast track them to be WO's. Pattern it after the Army's helo community.

 

[LJDRVR]

Why do they need a degree and why do they need to be commissioned? Take motivated enlisted guys/gals that are interested, train them to operate UAV's and if they are successful fast track them to be WO's. Pattern it after the Army's helo community.

I see where you're coming from - you and I are both former NCO's. The USAF retired their last WO in 1978, they're not bringing it back. As far as the pilot being an Officer, the reason I suggested it that way is inertia. (We've always done it that way!) With UAS pilots firing weapons on a regular basis, with a convoluted ROE involving other services and occasionally the NCA, I simply don't think the Air Staff would go for anything but commissioned officers with their finger on the pickle.

I suggested it the way I did because it would allow the very sharpest enlisted sensor operators a chance at not only a commission, but a very interesting job with great career potential as UAS become more prevalent.

 

[millhouse21]

I think the best route would be to handle it the same way the Navy handles their special warfare Officer Corps. (SEAL Officers are all prior-E SEALS.) IOW, Pipeline enlisted sensor operators who finish their degrees to OTS, commission them, send them to a modified IFS type program then train them as operators.

I like your idea but the bit about all SEAL officers being prior E-SEALs is not true. Plenty of officers straight out of the academy or ROTC get SEAL billets.

 

[FlyingHigh262]

they should make a separate AFSC for UAVs and let the pilots be pilots. have all the people that like playing flight simulator go UAVs!!!!

 

[JimNtexas]

A UPT graduate is the most expensive officer in the military, it's crazy to send him or her into a UAV where so much of UPT training just isn't needed. Nav school teaches all the knowledge one needs to operate an airplane or UAV anywhere in the world, it just leaves out the part where they train the pilots hands.

It seems to me that the long term answer is to have a training pipeline specifically for uav operators.

As a transition measure I'd go ahead and pay for the FAA commercial/instrument rating for any navs interested in the UAV mission.

A modified nav school that includes enough actual piloting to get an FAA commerical and instrument rating in a light plane would be a sensible low cost way to create a career uav operator.

About the only airplane or helo pilots I would force into UAVs would be the ones who say things like 'there are two kinds of airplanes, [insert mds here] and targets'. That kind of person is too immature to be trusted with autonomous control of an expensive air vehicle. He or she would be better off in the trailer where an a mature person could keep an eye on them.

 

[Birdstrike]

It really doesn't matter who controls these UAS platforms...the important part is how we train them to operate in a tactical environment...If we continue to expand the weapons capabilities up to the point nearing an actual fighter, then the training for UAS operaters needs to be at that level also. Not so much from the piloting perspective, but with weaponering, cas procedures, etc....they all need to be on the same page when it comes to tactical employment.

Noted. So how can a guy that just operates the box ever get enough situational awareness to be on the same page if he's never actually been (read flown) in a tactical environment himself?

 

[JimNtexas]

Noted. So how can a guy that just operates the box ever get enough situational awareness to be on the same page if he's never actually been (read flown) in a tactical environment himself?

Just make sure the uav operators can't command the squadrons. Reserve the ops officer and commander slots for pilots, the way God intended.

 

[JungleJett]

I watched a 15 year old work an RC airplane like he was sitting in it. It DOES NOT TAKE SOME HUGE BRAIN AND MAGICAL HANDS TO FLY A UAV. In fact, it does not take those things to fly a real airplane...regardless of pointy or blunt nose. (Helo guys are just weird...and do not fit the mold..and I have mad respect for them for that.)

I agree, take some high speed enlisted folks, send them to a Warrant Officer school and put them in UAV's and other jobs as well. Send them to a local flight school under contract and get them up to their commerical instrument in about 5 months for about 20K. You might even find some guys who already fly in their free time and would do well. You can free up some butter bar and put them in milpay and MPF where we really need people.

To take a pilot out of UPT and make them fly a UAV is flat out a waste of money. I am an enlisted guy (aircrew) and also a pilot in the civilian world, I could do the damn job...but am very happy where I am .

This is NOT rocket surgery...but in true USAF style, we will make it that way.

 

[tumbleweed]

Noted. So how can a guy that just operates the box ever get enough situational awareness to be on the same page if he's never actually been (read flown) in a tactical environment himself?

That is a damn good question! Obviously the former Chief of Staff felt it was important enough to snag some of our best, young fighter guys and send them to the UAS world. Just like any other tactical platform out there...when teaching new operators it is important to develop a culture of discipline and competency. That has to be a challenge for the UAS community due to the rapid expansion. Hardly any time to develop well established procedures and techniques like in other more mature systems.

It is an especially hard sell when the people you send there don't really want to be there doing the job. I agree with the idea of establishing a new AFSC primarily composed of WOs....so called techical experts in this new and expanding field. It seems to work well for the Army in their flying communities.

 

[Oh-ryan]

It really doesn't matter who controls these UAS platforms...the important part is how we train them to operate in a tactical environment. Whatever pipeline the AF decides on is mostly a mute point (except to those who are non-vol'd). If we continue to expand the weapons capabilities up to the point nearing an actual fighter, then the training for UAS operaters needs to be at that level also. Not so much from the piloting perspective, but with weaponering, cas procedures, etc.

After having a few long discussions with some of our former Lts working on the Pred/Reaper last week, they don't believe it is anywhere near where it NEEDS to be. Whether it is an A1C, new UPT grad, or senior Capt with thousands of hours in a tanker who ends up behind the console, they all need to be on the same page when it comes to tactical employment. Hopefully we don't lose sight of that in the flail to get as many systems in theater as quickly as possible...

Disagree with bolded statement. You contradict yourself. You say what's really important is "how" we train them and then in your next statement you say the pipeline used to train them is a mute point. A mute point? Really? Pipelines are how we train them. I think it's the most relavent point and the reason why we have 6+ pages and over 100 posts on this thread.

Read XTWAPilot's post just above yours. Why spend millions of dollars training someone to fly model aiplanes? Let's come up with a different pipeline that changes "how" we train them. It will certainly save taxpayer money and it will funnel UPT students into airplanes- where they belong.

 

[HueyHerc]

This just in from RND

...Let's come up with a different pipeline that changes "how" we train them. It will certainly save taxpayer money and it will funnel UPT students into airplanes- where they belong.

10/7/2008 - RANDOLPH AIR FORCE BASE, Texas (AFNS) -- Air Force officers are being sought as volunteers to operate unmanned aircraft systems. Applications are due to the Air Force Personnel Center no later than Nov. 3.

The first ten officers selected will start UAS operator training in January 2009, and another ten will begin training in April 2009.

The UAS is a big part of the future of the Air Force, Air Force officials said. First-hand knowledge of its capabilities and operations will be critical to future combat effectiveness as well as future Air Force leadership. Pilots flying operational missions or working in the Predator Operations Center get a unique perspective on world events, typically while such events are in progress.

In order to volunteer, officers must complete the test of basic aviation skills, or TBAS, by Oct. 31. Testing locations for the TBAS can be found on the Pilot Candidate Selection Method Web site. A Common Access Card is required to access this site.

In addition to the TBAS, officers must meet the following requirements:

-- Captain with 4-6 years total active federal commissioned service as of Jan. 5, 2009
-- Be less than 30 years old Jan. 5, 2009
-- Air Force Officer Qualification Test minimum scores greater than 25 for pilot, and greater than 50 for combined pilot and navigator composites. Note: if no AFOQT is on file, complete the AFOQT by Oct. 31, 2008
-- Two years time on station by July 1, 2009
-- No previous military pilot training experience

With respect to eligibility to volunteer:
-- Non-rated line officers are eligible
-- Combat system officers, panel navigators, electronic warfare officers, weapons system officers and air battle managers are eligible if they are not currently in training, awaiting training, or previously eliminated from upgrade pilot training.
-- Pilots are not eligible for this program

Volunteers meeting the criteria above and wanting to apply must complete the Aircrew Training Candidate Data Summery, Air Force Form 215, and electronically forward the completed form to Pipeline and Training Assignment Branch at [email protected] by 4 p.m. CST, Nov. 3, 2008. Group or squadron commanders -- do not use a higher level -- must provide their recommendations on the form. No other documentation will be accepted as part of the application process.

Interested officers who have questions about the application process, or the qualifications, can contact AFPC's Pipeline and Training Assignment Branch at (210) 565-2330, DSN 665-2330.

More information about this program can be found on the AFPC "Ask" Web site by entering "UAS" in the search engine. Individuals also can contact the 24-hour Air Force Contact Center at (800) 616-3775.

HH

 

[tumbleweed]

Disagree with bolded statement. You contradict yourself. You say what's really important is "how" we train them and then in your next statement you say the pipeline used to train them is a mute point. A mute point? Really? Pipelines are how we train them. I think it's the most relavent point and the reason why we have 6+ pages and over 100 posts on this thread.

Read XTWAPilot's post just above yours. Why spend millions of dollars training someone to fly model aiplanes? Let's come up with a different pipeline that changes "how" we train them. It will certainly save taxpayer money and it will funnel UPT students into airplanes- where they belong.

My thoughts didn't translate well into words in that sentence. By "pipeline" I was meaning more along the lines of those who end operating these things (i.e. pilots, WOs, Enlisted, etc)...not so much how we train them. Poor choice of words on my part!!!

 

[SIG600]

I just wanna know... when is the first class of UAV nerds going through the Weapons School?